Hi, Would i please be able to get some advice on how to set up new granny gears on my Diverge. I have recently fitted to my 2018 Diverge comp a 11-40T cassette. But after fitting the new parts, and trying to index the gears with the new cassette I still cant get the derailleur to take the chain onto the 40T sprocket.
So what i have done is, i have fitted a Sunrace MS-8 11-40T 11sp cassette and a new chain onto my bike, and adjusted the b-screw on the derailleur to give the derailleur max clearance from the large sprocket, but i found there still wasn't enough clearance for the derailleur cogs so i fitted a wolftooth roadlink to give the extra clearance. This worked great, I had plenty of clearance now. But when i tried to select all the gears i found i couldn't get the lowest and highest gears, i.e. 11 and 40T. and there was a bit of chatter on the other gears. something i expected. So after watching some instructional videos on youtube, i adjusted the derailleur limit screws and indexed the gears. I managed to get the 11T to mesh fine and i also indexed all the gears, up until the 40T. When I tried to adjust the H screw I found there wasn't enough travel left in the derailleur, as i could take the H screw all the way out and it still wouldn't go into high gear. When i tested the gear change i could only get the chain to go about 1/3 of the way on and then it would pop back down to the next lowest gear.
So is there a way i can get more out of the derailleur or do i need to get a new derailleur as well? One thing i noticed when i was indexing the gears, was the barrel adjuster only had counter clockwise adjustment available. I could not turn it in the clockwise direction. I assumed this is because its a newish bike and the cable is still in factory settings. If I understand correctly, if I turn the barrel adjuster counter clockwise, it will shift the whole derailleur index towards the spokes. So would it be good solution if i turned the barrel adjuster, adjusting the indexing towards the spokes until the chain came of the back of the sprocket, and then used the limiting screws to reset the limits and then re-index the gears? Is this a wise thing to do or could I be causing more issues? Thanks for taking the time to read this and any advice you can provide will be appreciated. The relevant parts on my bike are: Derailleur: Shimano 11 speed 105 RD 5800, i believe it has the long cage. Chainrings: 48/32T Original cassette: Shimano 105, 11 speed, 11-32T
You might want to try the Wolf Tooth 11 speed Tanpan derailleur converter. Still available through Jensen, out of stock at Wolf Tooth. A couple of years ago, I installed an 11-40 cassette on my older 9 speed Salsa Fargo with Shimano bar end shifters. Even with a longer B screw, it would not shift into the 40. It couldn't pull the cable far enough. My chainrings are a 3X 46/36/26. Installed the SH11 speed Tanpan the one with the adjuster and problem solved but I also had to use all of a new 116 link 9 speed chain . Also in my case I had to add two extra links in order to be able to use the 40 comfortably when in my middle chainring. So pay attention to your chain length, you may need to add some. Thank God for quick links. My derailleur is a long cage SLX Shadow Plus with 13 tooth jockey wheels but I didn't need to use a roadlink or goatlink and I don't use the derailleur clutch either. Hope this helps you some....
Spiraleddie wrote:I managed to get the 11T to mesh fine and i also indexed all the gears, up until the 40T. When I tried to adjust the H screw I found there wasn't enough travel left in the derailleur, as i could take the H screw all the way out and it still wouldn't go into high gear. When i tested the gear change i could only get the chain to go about 1/3 of the way on and then it would pop back down to the next lowest gear.
The L screw is what you would adjust (open up/counterclockwise) to open the limit of the rear derailleur to get your chain shifted onto the 40. Your 40 is your low gear, not your high gear.
I tried the wolf tooth 11 speed tan pan. It works pretty good. The shifting is ok. The problem I had with it was some chain slap. I would suggest getting the mtb clutch and going that way. Good luck
1. It does sound like you are adjusting the wrong limit screw.
2. Yes, counter clockwise adjustment on the barrel adjuster moves the rear derailleur toward the spokes. It does this throughout the range so if the other gears are shifting fine, it probably isn't the problem, but sometimes the middle gears on a cassette are more tolerant of poor indexing so it is worth giving it a try a quarter turn at a time.
3. With the 11-40T cassette you will almost certainly need a longer chain. It is worth seeing whether your current chain length is stopping it engaging in the 40T.
4. The tan pan is to compensate for different actuation ratios of shifters and derailleurs coming from different systems e.g. a Shimano road shifter and a Shimano mtb derailleur have different actuation ratios. Since you have kept the road derailleur at tan pan is not your solution.
5. The Sunrace is an mountain bike cassette which has a slightly different pitch (distance from one cog to the next) to a Shimano 11 speed road cassette. In principle you need to add in a 1.85mm spacer to make up for the difference (a spacer from an old cassette will probably do). It is worth checking that the Sunrace has no play in it - the need for a spacer is not always immediately obvious.
6. Many people find the Wolftooth link a cost effective solution. The current generation of Shimano road derailleurs will take a 11-40T cassette (unless you have an unusually large gap between chainrings) if you want to invest in a new derailleur. Lots of articles about this on the web. At the Ultegra level there is a model with a clutch mechanism like on Shimano mtb derailleurs if you find you are getting too much chain slap.
The spacer behind the cassette, and one or two pairs of extra links is probably great advice. Something to be mindful of as well - your 5800 derailleur has a total capacity of 37 teeth. With your new cassette you'll be a 45T ((40-11) + (48-32)). The roadlink helps get the derailleur up onto the 40T cog (given the other fixes), but doesn't increase capacity. FYI the new RX800 derailleur has a bit more capacity (39T), as well as a clutch so could be a fix if you get too much chain sag once you size a chain for your new big-big combination.
I second the RX800. That is the solution I have gone for on my GT Grade. I've used it for 11-40 on the rear and 50/34 on the front. 39T is the official capacity but it does have more than that in practice. (I've actually retreated to 11-36 on the rear as I found that gives an easy enough gear for the riding I do.) The RX800 comes in short and mid-cage versions. You need the mid-cage.
turaco wrote:I second the RX800. That is the solution I have gone for on my GT Grade. I've used it for 11-40 on the rear and 50/34 on the front. 39T is the official capacity but it does have more than that in practice. (I've actually retreated to 11-36 on the rear as I found that gives an easy enough gear for the riding I do.) The RX800 comes in short and mid-cage versions. You need the mid-cage.
Or do you think my existing 105 rear der will work? It was new in 2018 and is still running the stock 50/34 11-34 Shimano crank/cassette. That would be handy if I could just get the 11-40 cassette and a new chain.
edit: scratch the existing derailleur, just went and looked, it’s RD-5800 so like @Spiraleddie it won’t work.
Interesting that it's a 5800 - normally an 11-32 would be spec for that derailleur. If it turns out to be R7000 then the capacity is the same as turaco's RX800. If you go ahead with the 11-40 project, please try to write again with how you ended up vis a vis spacer, roadlink, derailler, chainrings, etc.
Mark_S wrote:Interesting that it's a 5800 - normally an 11-32 would be spec for that derailleur. If it turns out to be R7000 then the capacity is the same as turaco's RX800. If you go ahead with the 11-40 project, please try to write again with how you ended up vis a vis spacer, roadlink, derailler, chainrings, etc.
2018 Trek Checkpoint SL5, it’s a 5800. I will order an RX800, CS-M8000 cassette, new chain, and go from there. Thanks for the help.
FWIW, my 2015 Diverge and 2014 Roubaix Experts came with a 11-28 and 11-32 cassette and compact 50/34 rings. For climbing on both I made up rear 12-36 cassettes by dropping the needless 11t and adding longer chains. I then realized I hated the 50/34 three gear delta, so ended up with fast-shifting 46/36 rings. As I rarely descend at great speed, the 46:12 is fine, and I like the 1:1 for climbs. I cannot remember if it was the Force 22 or Ultegra rear that needed a longer cage variant. I didn't realize you young Turks are now using 40t rears in this setup! Even as an old fart I can't imagine going under 6mph on the hills I travel, so 1:1 seems to work fine. Should I really bother to try to fit in a 40-42t rear to under-drive another 10-15%? At that point isn't it easier to just walk uphill? The derailleur just clears the 36t. Are you all stating that a simple adaptor would allow these rear derailleurs to pull up onto a 40-42t with just maybe a longer chain too? I see now too that there are 48/32 ring sets, but that's still a big 16t jump I find crude. I temporarily tried a 46/34 set but found the shifting not as optimized as a dedicated 46/36 cross ringset. Is this an accurate observation? If not, maybe going back to a 34t ring will get me 6% better climbing without having to install a pizza-sized 40-42t back there. Thanks for helping me out. Ern TheSubaruGuru/Boston
TheSubaruGuru wrote:FWIW, my 2015 Diverge and 2014 Roubaix Experts came with a 11-28 and 11-32 cassette and compact 50/34 rings. For climbing on both I made up rear 12-36 cassettes by dropping the needless 11t and adding longer chains. I then realized I hated the 50/34 three gear delta, so ended up with fast-shifting 46/36 rings. As I rarely descend at great speed, the 46:12 is fine, and I like the 1:1 for climbs. I cannot remember if it was the Force 22 or Ultegra rear that needed a longer cage variant. I didn't realize you young Turks are now using 40t rears in this setup! Even as an old fart I can't imagine going under 6mph on the hills I travel, so 1:1 seems to work fine. Should I really bother to try to fit in a 40-42t rear to under-drive another 10-15%? At that point isn't it easier to just walk uphill? The derailleur just clears the 36t. Are you all stating that a simple adaptor would allow these rear derailleurs to pull up onto a 40-42t with just maybe a longer chain too? I see now too that there are 48/32 ring sets, but that's still a big 16t jump I find crude. I temporarily tried a 46/34 set but found the shifting not as optimized as a dedicated 46/36 cross ringset. Is this an accurate observation? If not, maybe going back to a 34t ring will get me 6% better climbing without having to install a pizza-sized 40-42t back there. Thanks for helping me out. Ern TheSubaruGuru/Boston
What I’ve found on gravel with a 1:1 easiest gear of 34/34 is that when it gets steep I can’t stand up because the back tire loses traction. My only option is to sit to keep the tire from slipping but at that point I’m grinding away at 50rpms. In that scenario I’d like more gear so I could sit and spin at a higher cadence. Ideally I’d do a 12 speed 1X setup with 40T and 10-50 cassette but it’s really expensive.
I have the Cannondale Topstone with a 46/30 crank and a 11-40 cassette using the Tanpan by Wolf Tooth and a Shimano XT MTB derailleur. Works great. My LBS orginally tried only using the 105 derailleur but there was just too much slop in the chain. http://www.randorichard.com/cannondale-topstone-carbon-review
If anyone's interested I've just installed the Sunrace 11-40 on my Grade, and changed to 46/32 in the process. Still R7000GS derailleur as stock. Works great. The 32x40 combination keeps cadence up on steep climbs, which was my main goal in doing this. I'd have been happy enough with that, but my secondary objective was to reduce the chainring gap to 14T, as I wasn't liking the 46/30. I'm only needing to shift the front about a third as much now, because the greater range of the cassette keeps me on the 46 more of the time, but when I do it is a much easier shift. This is an old thread so I'll leave it there for now, but happy to say more if anyone needs me to. Summary: 11-40 with 46/32 appears to be a winning combination; 4T overcapacity is a lot but workable by just staying out of the smallest 3-4 cogs when on the inner ring.
2018 Trek Checkpoint SL5, it’s a 5800. I will order an RX800, CS-M8000 cassette, new chain, and go from there. Thanks for the help.
Installed it all today, works great. No issues with clearance for the 40T. I did use the entire chain although I will never use big ring/big cog at the same time.
Interesting that you are reluctant about the big-big combination. On my new setup, with essentially the same derailleur (newest 105 with same 39T capacity as RX800) and 112 link chain, the 46-40 combination works a treat...
