Steel is real ?

bobknh wrote:
Yup - too bad you can't do "blind testing" on bikes. I bet once you set up identical positions, and run identical tires and wheels, most of us can't tell the difference between bikes. This goes for the "expert" testers as well.

I think I could.  I have steel, carbon, aluminum.  Certainly the steel and aluminum are quite different.

Taking a GT grade as example.  I don't care how much hydroforming is done, the Aluminum grade rides pretty similar to any carbon bike I have.  It is a very familiar feel - alive, snappy, responsive.  Similar with Steel - it is a very familiar feel to me.  Solid, planted, well damped, not snappy.

The carbon GT grade I road was very different.  Even with 28mm tires on it, it felt like it had 40mm tires on it at about 35psi.  Very very smooth in comparison.  Felt like night and day to me.

Carbon bikes can be tuned in a lot of different ways.  I've ridden some that are very stiff and felt like an aluminum bike.  I have ridden some that felt solid and well damped like a steel bike (but lighter and more responsive).

chas wrote:

I'm curious about Ti.  (Ti Curious?)  How would you describe it?  The damping of Steel with the stiffness of...?   

I have a '94 steel Allez.  It is a nice riding and handling bike.  Not the best for sprinting, but if I'm not racing, who cares?

Yes I'd describe the ride of Ti to be very similar to steel -BUT- Ti is not as stiff as steel so tubing with the same diameter, shape and thickness will be more flexible with Ti than steel and the Ti will absorb slightly more high frequency vibration.  The end result of the ride is in the hands of the builder - my Ti CX bike is very stiff, but road bike is very flexible.  My favorite properties of Ti are that it doesn't scratch easily or corrode, and is extremely resistant to fatigue failure and denting.  In Colorado we have LOTS of rock and debris on the road shoulder so all my painted bikes have paint chips.  Yes, a skinny race tire can shoot a rock with a lot of force.  Not a mark on any of the Ti bikes I've owned. 

There is a different "feel" to the various frame materials, but I would say Steel and Ti are very similar.  Aluminum and CF are much more distinct.  Again the "feel" is in the high frequency vibration damping or transmission.  By definition, a stiff frame will not absorb an impact (ex. expansion joints, hole, etc).  

Thanks Greg!