700x50 tire rolling info? Or just get a good XC tire?

I only recently realized that BRR doesn't test gravel tires >45mm. And doesn't test MTB tires <55mm. So the range of gravel tires in the 47-50mm window are totally ignored.  

 

As someone with a love for the drop bar 29er/adventure/ monstercross bikes, this leaves a huge blind spot. And subjective "this rolled fast" impressions are often unreliable.  

 

But this has me wondering, if the bike is built for 29er tires, is there any point to the gravel oriented options here? Or just get a Conti Race King and call it a day? My suspicion is that the R&D behind the XC market will beat out whatever work is being done on something that is a nice product in the gravel world but wondering what other people have found. 

FWIW BRR has tested the Conti Terra Hardpack in 50-622 and it looks like the Schwalbe G-One Overland in 50-622 will be tested soon.

BRR just started testing up to 50mm tires for gravel.  Also keep in mind that many tires tested by BRR come in 50mm sizes also, so they should have similar RR to the smaller sizes.  For instance the Panaracer Gravel King SK and Pirelli Gravel H come in 50mm and both were tested by BRR is smaller sizes. Honestly though Race Kings are some awesome and fast tires, so theres no reason not to run them.  On my Moots Routt YBB one of my wheelsets has older Schwalbe Thunderburt liteskin 29x2.1 tires and they are faster than most "gravel" tires.  They weigh 430g each, so lighter than many 40mm gravel tires also. 

Yep the Thunderburt 2.1" tires in both 27.5 and 29er are great gravel+ tires if they fit your frame & fork: they roll amazingly well (https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews/schwalbe-thunder-burt-super-ground) and are widely available at okay prices. The 29er version also comes in the Super Race casing that's apparently a bit more supple vs the Super Ground casing and comes in both black and classic skin sidewalls. I have been running the 27.5" Super Ground casing version for about a year now and didn't look back (sorry WTB Venture).

 

I run the 29er Conti Race King Protection 2.2" in my MTB, this tire has quite a bit more profile vs the Thunderburt and also rolls really well and also comes in a smaller diameter 27.5" wheel size in 2.2" width.

Also, the g-one beach racing version of the speed in 2-inch, tho it just comes in 650B. It should test out in the range of @14-15w. There is very very little tire there. But I’ll echo that thunder Burts in lite skin are super super fast. No real flat protection though.

Also, the g-one beach racing version of the speed in 2-inch, tho it just comes in 650B. It should test out in the range of @14-15w. There is very very little tire there. But I’ll echo that thunder Burts in lite skin are super super fast. No real flat protection though.

 

The liteskin  Thunderburts are ridiculously thin in hand, but surprisingly I have never flatted one with thousands of miles ridden.  I did get flats with the even more ridiculous Furious Fred’s.

 

The liteskin  Thunder burts are ridiculously thin in hand, but surprisingly I have never flatted one with thousands of miles ridden.  I did get flats with the even more ridiculous Furious Fred’s.

Yes, they’re fabulously thin. I raced them twice, once with no issues. The second time was like a master class in how big fluffy, super flimsy (“supple!”)  tires work.

It was a a race I wasn’t taking taking seriously for various reasons, I left them on despite a super tame course. We thought.

The race director was caught off guard by park service dumping @12-14 miles of fresh egg-sized railroad gravel fully carpeting a long section of two-track. Nowhere to hide, no lines on the edges, had to go straight up the middle and ride it.

 

I had them at about 26 psi and while they weren’t perfect, they were light years faster than the 36-40 stuff everyone else was on. And I mean, like a 40 percent speed difference. The rocks were just too big for normal tires.

I was passing faster riders like a ski racer dodging gates.... until I started flatting. Got three. Or rather, two including one that blew out six attempts at plugging with two kinds of plugger. There just wasn’t enough tire there for the plug to get much purchase, as least for the amount of bending it had to do on those rocks. 

Only gravel race I’ve ever DNF’d./

But man, they were fast until....

BRR just started testing up to 50mm tires for gravel.  Also keep in mind that many tires tested by BRR come in 50mm sizes also, so they should have similar RR to the smaller sizes.  

 

Ok, that's good news then!  

I don't really feel comfortable assuming that a manufacturer has kept the construction exactly the same across all the different tire widths.  Really, they have no obligation to do so and I feel that only a subset of gravel riders are actually looking at these numbers. Plus there are some tires that only come in the 47+mm area. My gut is that they don't outperform the XC tires, but data would be good. 

 

Also, the g-one beach racing version of the speed in 2-inch, tho it just comes in 650B. It should test out in the range of @14-15w. There is very very little tire there. But I’ll echo that thunder Burts in lite skin are super super fast. No real flat protection though.

 

Those beach racing tires have long interested me.  Now that BRR converted all their numbers to tubeless, they are down to 10W. Insane. Definitely makes one wonder about the gravel tire market though when the top 3 MTB tires are equal or better than the top 3 gravel tires. 

 

Those beach racing tires have long interested me.  Now that BRR converted all their numbers to tubeless, they are down to 10W. Insane. Definitely makes one wonder about the gravel tire market though when the top 3 MTB tires are equal or better than the top 3 gravel tires. 

Are you talking about the old Schwalbe Big One tires?  I looked it up and they are in fact 10 watts at 35 psi.  That is higher then I would ride them, but the real problem is that they don't make those tires anymore and the new versions are really slow because they use Speedgrip, which BRR has show is a very slow compound.

 

Those beach racing tires have long interested me.  Now that BRR converted all their numbers to tubeless, they are down to 10W. Insane. Definitely makes one wonder about the gravel tire market though when the top 3 MTB tires are equal or better than the top 3 gravel tires. 

 

You need to be careful when comparing MTB tires to gravel tires on BRR.  The mountain bike tires are rated at a different tire drop pressure than the gravel tires.  This is because the mountain bike tires used to be tested with tubes before tubeless tires, so people ran higher pressures.  To make a fair comparison you need to compare the gravel medium pressure to the mtb 25psi.  Also many gravel tires have more puncture protection than mtb tires so that’s going to make them slower.

Are you talking about the old Schwalbe Big One tires?  I looked it up and they are in fact 10 watts at 35 psi.  That is higher then I would ride them, but the real problem is that they don't make those tires anymore and the new versions are really slow because they use Speedgrip, which BRR has show is a very slow compound.

 

I had a set of the newer ones in 650Bx60mm/27.5x2.35" and they were indeed not as fast as you would have hoped.  Also, and this is why I felt compelled to comment, they made the bike handling a little terrifying. I don't really understand the physics of what was happening, but they made the steering feel like the front tire was stuck in a rut to the point that I had numerous occasions where I was worried about running into a curb or otherwise crashing.  I played with different offsets on my flippable fork (52 vs 47) to no avail (HTA is 71.5°).  Mentioned this to Jan Heine on one of his Instagram posts and he said he experienced the same thing and they didn't understand it.  Perhaps just the stickiness of the rubber at that size?  (I run 27.5x2.25 MTB tires on same bike and experience none of that.) It was weird.  I love the idea, though, and would try it again with a faster compound.

 

I had a set of the newer ones in 650Bx60mm/27.5x2.35" and they were indeed not as fast as you would have hoped.  Also, and this is why I felt compelled to comment, they made the bike handling a little terrifying. I don't really understand the physics of what was happening, but they made the steering feel like the front tire was stuck in a rut to the point that I had numerous occasions where I was worried about running into a curb or otherwise crashing.  I played with different offsets on my flippable fork (52 vs 47) to no avail (HTA is 71.5°).  Mentioned this to Jan Heine on one of his Instagram posts and he said he experienced the same thing and they didn't understand it.  Perhaps just the stickiness of the rubber at that size?  (I run 27.5x2.25 MTB tires on same bike and experience none of that.) It was weird.  I love the idea, though, and would try it again with a faster compound.

If you want to try a similar tire just find a Conti Speedking Racesport.  They are really just a big road tire with a little bit of tread.  In limited home testing, I could not show they were any slower than riding a 5000GP on the back.  I made them my full-time road bike rear tire.  They are limited in gravel/off-road use because they don't resist cuts at all, but as a big road tire I love them.  I used that on my bike when I climbed Mauna Kea in Hawaii this past fall so that I did not need to switch out bikes for the gravel section.  Not sure I've ever going to go back to a skinny tire for the road.

 

PS. I'm sure the GP5000 is still faster on smooth roads where you can run higher psi, but those don't exist where I live.

 

Those beach racing tires have long interested me.  Now that BRR converted all their numbers to tubeless, they are down to 10W. Insane. Definitely makes one wonder about the gravel tire market though when the top 3 MTB tires are equal or better than the top 3 gravel tires. 

To be a real gravel tire a tire needs at least a hint of protection... I think some of the race day MTB tires are aimed at dirt courses where puncture hazards are minimal. That’s at least part of the explanation. Those beach racing tires and the very lightest variant of Thunder Burt won’t hold up to much that is sharp.

 

 

I had a set of the newer ones in 650Bx60mm/27.5x2.35" and they were indeed not as fast as you would have hoped.  Also, and this is why I felt compelled to comment, they made the bike handling a little terrifying. I don't really understand the physics of what was happening, but they made the steering feel like the front tire was stuck in a rut to the point that I had numerous occasions where I was worried about running into a curb or otherwise crashing.  I played with different offsets on my flippable fork (52 vs 47) to no avail (HTA is 71.5°).  Mentioned this to Jan Heine on one of his Instagram posts and he said he experienced the same thing and they didn't understand it.  Perhaps just the stickiness of the rubber at that size?  (I run 27.5x2.25 MTB tires on same bike and experience none of that.) It was weird.  I love the idea, though, and would try it again with a faster compound.

 

Yes, I def experience this. I mean, it wasn’t scary exactly, but def the front was noticeably resistant to turning on pavement in the opening neutral stretch of the races. It was an odd feeling. I guess just the sheer width loses directionality? But it also seems like this would be an even bigger issue on say fat bikes.

On loose stuff, I never really had an issue with it.

 

Yes, I def experience this. I mean, it wasn’t scary exactly, but def the front was noticeably resistant to turning on pavement in the opening neutral stretch of the races. It was an odd feeling. I guess just the sheer width loses directionality? But it also seems like this would be an even bigger issue on say fat bikes.

On loose stuff, I never really had an issue with it.

 

Scary might have been a slight exaggeration, but I was using this in group rides and the extra weirdness with turning did feel a bit unsafe (so I stopped using them on paved group rides).  Yes, must have just been the super wide width.  It was a lot of fun other than that, though. I agree that off-pavement it was just fine.

Find some Renegades. I’ve seen S-Works 2.1s very cheap

 

 

Yes, I def experience this. I mean, it wasn’t scary exactly, but def the front was noticeably resistant to turning on pavement in the opening neutral stretch of the races. It was an odd feeling. I guess just the sheer width loses directionality? But it also seems like this would be an even bigger issue on say fat bikes.

On loose stuff, I never really had an issue with it.

 

I had the exact same experience on the 2.35" 650b G-one speeds on the pavement: it turns like an oil tanker, but once it turns, it goes all in lol. They float like a dream on loose sand though, perfect for beach races.

 

I had the exact same experience on the 2.35" 650b G-one speeds on the pavement: it turns like an oil tanker, but once it turns, it goes all in lol. They float like a dream on loose sand though, perfect for beach races.

 

What you're describing sounds a lot like self steer that fat bikes typically experience on pavement.  What pressures were you running? 

 

On fat tires, it's definitely an interaction with the grippy pavement surface and is gone on surfaces the tire was intended for. 

 

I actually got a hint of self steer on pavement this past weekend with my 40mm Strada Biancas, I'm thinking the smooth tread makes the effect happen with a smaller tire as opposed to a knobby tread that can flex a bit more.