Disc brake help needed.

25 replies · 357 views

Zurichman
1,526 posts
#1Jun 20, 2017, 10:00 PMedited
So I am having trouble with my disc brakes on my new Tamland. The bike only has around 30 miles on it and I should have more but my local mt. that I climb that is 3 miles long at 7 - 8% slope is simply frightening to me on the descent. RoverAl has asked me if I had bed the brakes in which I haven't. I read steps in Bike Radar on how to bed in brakes.

1. Clean rotors. Should my rotors be dirty with this few of miles on the bike? If I clean the rotors what kind of disk roto cleaner is there at auto parts stores?
2. Only use new brake pads. Mine should be in new condition right.
3. Find a hill where you can get up to 20 mph and drag the brakes 5-10 seconds to warm the rotors up and then hit the brakes hard.
4. Do this 5 - 6 times and after each time your brakes should be better.
5. 50/50 discussion on whether you should use water in between sessions.

Does this sound right?

I would hope that this works. I luv to climb and think I have the right climbing gears on the Tamland but descending has always been my weakness even as a roadie and it seems worse for me gravel grinding.

I also wouldn't mind some discussion of TRP Spyre versus hydro brakes(brands) and what the difference of the cost is. I also read somewhere where the TRP rotors aren't that good and somebody recommended Shimano Ice rotors.

Any suggestions would be gladly appreciated. I love gravel grinding so far but the downhill descents right now is scaring the bejeebers out of me.

Thanks
Zman
0
turaco
10 posts
#2Jun 21, 2017, 4:28 AM
If you have been 3 miles down a 7% slope your breakers will definitely be bedded in by now. Sounds like you have bigger problems. Have you tried pumping the levers? If that works, you need to bleed the brakes. \n \n
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#3Jun 21, 2017, 5:28 AM
turaco wrote:If you have been 3 miles down a 7% slope your breakers will definitely be bedded in by now. Sounds like you have bigger problems. Have you tried pumping the levers? If that works, you need to bleed the brakes.

These aren't hydro brakes on the Raleigh Tamland 1 just regular disc brakes.

Zman

0
RoverAl
489 posts
#4Jun 21, 2017, 5:33 AM
I used rubbing alcohol on rotors with a clean rag, be careful the edges can be razor sharp. \nYou don't need a hill just get your speed up to about 15 mph and break hard without locking up about 5 or six times or whatever it takes. I haven't heard about the water concept before this. \nI noticed a difference immediately with my set up. \n \nWhat brake issues are you having that needs correcting?
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bobknh
794 posts
#5Jun 21, 2017, 7:19 AMedited
My $.02: First, I come from a road background, with a limited experience with mechanical cable discs - TRP Spyr's 160mm rotors fron, 140 rotors rear.
- Good rim brakes have more swept area than a 160mm rotor. Hence, in my limited experience I get better stopping power from good rim calipers like my Paul's Minimoto's with Koolstop Salmon pads.
- It took about 3 rides on my Spyr's before they fully bedded in.
- While your front brake takes most of the stopping chores, a 140mm in the rear is very ineffective.
- Cable setup on mech. discs is very critical for good performance. Especially, trimming the outer cable. There is a good video on Paul's Components on how to prep. the ends of the outer cable https://paulcomp.com/shop/components/klamper/ . BTW, Paul's recommends using standard brake cable - not compressionless.
- If after a few rides, and thorough inspection of your brake installation, you are still dissatisfied with your brakes. There are several things you can try.
- Switch to harder brake pads. The tradeoff is that harder scintered pads are noisy.
- Upgrade to hydraulic brakes. A good choice might be TRP HY/RD's. These are hybrid cable actuated hydraulic brakes. The fluid reservoir is on the caliper rather than the brake shifters. According to the reviews I've read, they will give you some performance improvement, but not the modulation or feel of a fully hydraulic system. If you go this route, I'd try to get the largest rotors possible for your bike.
Finally - ultimate stopping performance is limited by your tires, and your skill. I've found that the more I ride, the better and more comfortable I am -- regardless of what brakes I'm using.
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PMC
26 posts
#6Jun 21, 2017, 7:41 AM
I've never used TRP discs but put a few hundred miles on them before you pass judgement. If that means you don't do your big climb, it means you don't do you big climb.

I've never done anything more than 15-20 mph, slow it down with firm pressure and repeat 8-10 times. Then I ride it, simple as that and I've never had brake power or modulation issues. I will say that with cable brakes lever feel really depends on the housing used during the build. A good brake housing makes a huge difference when running Avids.
0
dangle
465 posts
#7Jun 21, 2017, 1:27 PM
Zurichman wrote:I also wouldn't mind some discussion of TRP Spyre versus hydro brakes(brands) and what the difference of the cost is. I also read somewhere where the TRP rotors aren't that good and somebody recommended Shimano Ice rotors.

Any suggestions would be gladly appreciated. I love gravel grinding so far but the downhill descents right now is scaring the bejeebers out of me.

Thanks
Zman

Go to the search function and type in "brake." This exact topic has been covered several times already. Cable housing, brake pads, cleaning (basic auto store disc brake cleaner), bedding in pads (sounds like yours are though), adjustments....it's all there.

This TRP rotor isn't very good.

This TRP rotor is very good.

The Shimano 'Ice' rotors don't stop any better than their basic (and lighter) SLX version. It's the same design and same metal touching the brake pads.

0
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#8Jun 21, 2017, 3:50 PM
RoverAl wrote:I used rubbing alcohol on rotors with a clean rag, be careful the edges can be razor sharp. You don't need a hill just get your speed up to about 15 mph and break hard without locking up about 5 or six times or whatever it takes. I haven't heard about the water concept before this. I noticed a difference immediately with my set up. What brake issues are you having that needs correcting?

The braking issues I am having when coming down the mt. for the 3 miles @ 7 - 8 % slope the bike seems like it never wants to stop or slow down. It's pretty frightening. If I grabbed the front brakes too hard on my rim race bike with cool stops I am going out of the front of the bike. I have to work to get the bike to stayed slowed down. I haven't tried techy downhill stuff yet but feel that I wouldn't be able to control my bike in that or in an emergency situation where I have to stop really fast.

Thanks
Zman
0
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#9Jun 21, 2017, 3:52 PM
dangle wrote:

Go to the search function and type in "brake." This exact topic has been covered several times already. Cable housing, brake pads, cleaning (basic auto store disc brake cleaner), bedding in pads (sounds like yours are though), adjustments....it's all there.

This TRP rotor isn't very good.

This TRP rotor is very good.

The Shimano 'Ice' rotors don't stop any better than their basic (and lighter) SLX version. It's the same design and same metal touching the brake pads.

Dangle any idea how much difference I could see in braking power with the TRP or with the Shimano rotors?

Thanks
Zman
0
dangle
465 posts
#10Jun 21, 2017, 3:57 PM
Zurichman wrote:

Dangle any idea how much difference I could see in braking power with the TRP or with the Shimano rotors?

Thanks
Zman

I don't know. The rotors are really only part of the story. I don't know much about about your current pads. I had Hy/Rd's that came with lame pads. TRP sent over some 'new' pads that were awesome when paired with the 29'er rotor a little over a year ago. You could even fit a 180 rotor on the front for an instant boost in brake power.

Again, go through the other brake threads. There's several places where your 'weak link' could be. I'm assuming on a fairly cheap bike that the cable housing may be a culprit as well.
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#11Jun 21, 2017, 4:35 PM
I read somewhere that the cables were a weak link on the Tamland 1. So yes I bought what somebody recommended as the compression less cables(Nashbar brand) They came with 2 cables. Do I need to just get these put on the back or front and back?

Thanks
Zman
0
RoverAl
489 posts
#12Jun 21, 2017, 4:49 PM
I have the Rotors that are labeled not so good. Even with 3000 miles on them and stock pads I wouldn't hesitate to ride just about anything. \n \nThe Tamland came with some above average bits and pieces and was not considered a cheap bike when it came out. The cables that came with the bike are probably better than the ones you are looking at. \nConsider you only have 30 miles on the bike , getting it checked out professionally would be a good thing to do. \n \nI suggest you go to a shop and have them set up your brakes, either something is not right with the settings or something is not right with the equipment. Should they say nothing seems wrong with them then upgrade. \n \nWell worth the money spent especially since you aren't mechanically inclined. Your brakes aren't something to screw around with.
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moe53
45 posts
#13Jun 21, 2017, 4:51 PM
Are the pads adjusted correctly? They need to be very close to the disc, almost touching at rest.
0
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#14Jun 21, 2017, 5:03 PMedited
RoverAl wrote:I have the Rotors that are labeled not so good. Even with 3000 miles on them and stock pads I wouldn't hesitate to ride just about anything. The Tamland came with some above average bits and pieces and was not considered a cheap bike when it came out. The cables that came with the bike are probably better than the ones you are looking at. Consider you only have 30 miles on the bike , getting it checked out professionally would be a good thing to do. I suggest you go to a shop and have them set up your brakes, either something is not right with the settings or something is not right with the equipment. Should they say nothing seems wrong with them then upgrade. Well worth the money spent especially since you aren't mechanically inclined. Your brakes aren't something to screw around with.

Well as you said RoverAl I had the bike set up since I am not mechanically inclined. They are a Raleigh dealer and I had the bike all set up except the front rotor set up as I didn't know how to do that. I took the bike out for a test ride and the front brakes were ticking. He put some shims on it and it seemed fine. That being said this shop has a very young wrench and guessing he doesn't work on many gravel bikes. Good shops are hard to find here in rural Pa. I know another shop that should be better but he seems to always overcharge me. At this point though a little bit more money for my safe of mind is in order I guess.

Thanks
Zman
0
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#15Jun 21, 2017, 5:14 PM
PMC wrote:
I've never used TRP discs but put a few hundred miles on them before you pass judgement. If that means you don't do your big climb, it means you don't do you big climb.

I've never done anything more than 15-20 mph, slow it down with firm pressure and repeat 8-10 times. Then I ride it, simple as that and I've never had brake power or modulation issues. I will say that with cable brakes lever feel really depends on the housing used during the build. A good brake housing makes a huge difference when running Avids.

Thanks for the advice but that is the only place in my area that has gravel. I am going to get this fixed as I don't like white knuckle descents.

Zman
0
RoverAl
489 posts
#16Jun 21, 2017, 6:23 PM
One other thing I can think of is maybe you glazed the pads on your initial ride. Easy to fix with sandpaper, but you need to pull the pads again easy a pair of needle nose pliers and a hex key. Have the shop check.
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Zurichman
1,526 posts
#17Jun 21, 2017, 6:31 PM
RoverAl wrote:One other thing I can think of is maybe you glazed the pads on your initial ride. Easy to fix with sandpaper, but you need to pull the pads again easy a pair of needle nose pliers and a hex key. Have the shop check.

I went out and looked at the pads and they sure don't look close. I will go to my better shop tomorrow as I know he knows more about mt/gravels bikes.

Thanks
Zman
0
RoverAl
489 posts
#18Jun 21, 2017, 7:03 PMedited
If they aren't close you will feel that slack in the lever. All it takes is a turn with a 3 mm hex wrench. What I do is bring it in until I can't spin wheel freely then back it out till I can. There is very little daylight between the pad and rotor on my setup.\nTry and describe exactly what is happening when you pull the levers?..
0
Zurichman
1,526 posts
#19Jun 21, 2017, 7:24 PM
RoverAl wrote:If they aren't close you will feel that slack in the lever. All it takes is a turn with a 3 mm hex wrench. What I do is bring it in until I can't spin wheel freely then back it out till I can. There is very little daylight between the pad and rotor on my setup. Try and describe exactly what is happening when you pull the levers?..

tks
Zman
0
Volsung
878 posts
#20Jun 21, 2017, 10:49 PM
If those solutions don't fix it, you could upgrade to swissstop pads. The stock ones don't do the calipers justice.
1

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