So I actually went a little different in that I put a large spread on the front (38/22) with a tighter cassette (9-spd 11-28). This allows me to have tighter jumps for cadence and still drop way down if needed. I rarely spin out due to the fact that I am usually so exhausted that I prefer to coast at anything approaching 30mph.
I agree with you. Being primarily a roadie and a former racer, I really like smaller jumps between gears. For the past few years, I've been riding a Pinarello CX Carbon with a 39x24 crank (a road triple with the outer ring removed) and an 11-25 10 speed cassette. It gets me up pretty much anything, including the brutal dirt climbs in Vermont, and it works pretty well on logging roads and single-track.
OTOH, my new bike is a Niner BSB 9 RDO 5-Star build (I wanted disc brakes and a fork that doesn't shudder under braking) that came with with a 46/36 crank and an 11-32 11 speed cassette. The low end isn't low enough for me and the terrain I ride. I'm looking at switching to a Sugino crank with a 44/30 and probably dropping it down to a 28 on the inner ring. Ideally, I'd love to drop down to a 42/26 or 40/24 with an 11-28 cassette, but either of those would require changing the front derailleur for one of the MTB Di2 models. It may not be worth the cost just to tighten the gearing jumps.
I've considered an MTB crank, as there are several nice cranks that are available cheap on sale, but as best I can measure it, the chainline on the frame appears to be designed for road cranks, which is what the bikes are spec'd with. I'm still waiting on the definitive word from Niner. If an MTB crank will work OK, I could get a crank with a ceramic BB, plus the front derailleur for less than the same price of the Sugino crank & BB.
I live here in Pa. and yes we have mts. here. I have a triple road bike a 2006 Lemond Victoirre that climbs like a sweetheart. I bought a 2016 Raleigh Tamland 1. It weighs 24.5 lbs stock and 25.15 lbs with my mt pedals on it. I went to climb y local mt. the 1st ride out and though my heart was going to explode out my chest and I conider myself a decent climber. I had the LBS put on the Sram 11 x 36 and the road link and a new chain. I haven't had a chance to climb the mt with it yet but know that it has to be better than before. Since I am going to be doing some gravel grinding in those leetle hills in WV. I am going to need those lower gears.
My gravel areas can be quite hilly and steep at times. So coming from a roadbike compact double with a 12-30, I used that gearcalculator site and settled on 11-36 with a 38t. Downhills I'm quite happy to coast.
My $.02: There are really 2 questions here -- what gearing do you need or want -- and what gearing is possible with today's popular drive train components. The first question, only you can answer. It all depends on your ability, riding style, strength, and physical limitations; as well as the terrain you ride on. The second question is easy -- with modern 11 speed medium cage der's, from Shimano and SRAM, perhaps with a Wolftooth Roadlink hanger adapter, you can comfortably run an 11-36 in the back, and a 46/36 chain ring combo in front. This is the set up I'm now running on all of my bikes. You will have to fiddle with the chain length and "b" screw adjustment to make it run smoothly at all gear combinations- even the extreme's of 46/36, and avoid to slack a chain at 36/11. Last year, I even ran a 11-40 11 speed mountain bike cassette with a 46/36 in front on a Shimano Ultegra 11 speed medium cage der. BTW, my current set up on my Swiss Cross Canti is a SRAM eTap wifli with a 46/36 in front and a 11-36 back -- with a Wolftooth Roadlink. Works for me. One other point about 10 and 11 speed chains. In the old days, we avoided cross chaining like the plague. But 10 and 11 speed chains are more flexible than 7-8-9 speed chains of old. While I still try to avoid cross chaining, it is much less of an issue than it was in the "old days". This is one of the reasons that 1x systems are possible. In effect, I use my 46/36 CX cranks as 2 1x systems. I like the fact that I can cover most of my riding on either the 46 or the 36 without frequent front der. shifting.
While all of that is true, there are a couple of other considerations:
First is the aformentioned gearing jumps, which just get larger as the cassette does. I find huge gearing jumps to be uncomfortable and inefficient, as you're frequently pedaling too fast or too slow. The second consideration is piling excess weight on the bike by adding a huge, heavy cassette, more chain and a Roadlink that's only necessary because of the huge cassette. I'm not saying that any of this is wrong or that it won't work for many riders (it obviously works for you), I'm just pointing out the downsides.
In contrast, switching to smaller chainrings allows you keep the smaller cassette (or even reduce it in size), reduce the amount of chain and eliminate the Roadlink. Gearing gaps are reduced dramatically, which for me at least, results in more efficient and enjoyable riding. For non-racers, the essentially useless gears above 100 gear inches are eliminated. If I'm spinning out a gear that big, I must be going downhill and I'm better off coasting and catching my breath for the next climb.
As for shifting more in the front, you won't shift that much more often, as you still have a good range on each chainring. The difference is that you'll spend more time in the big ring and use the small ring primarily for climbing and transitioning back to the big ring. Besides, when did front shifting become burdensome? Modern derailleurs and cranks shift quickly and reliably - on or off-road - so what's the big deal with a few extra front shifts?
In fairness, I have to point out that changing a crankset is the more expensive route, particularly if you have to change the front derailleur as well. However, if it makes riding more fun and efficient, it's worth the outlay IMO, as that's the whole point, isn't it?
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In other news Shimano is coming out with an 11-34 HG800 cassette that fits on the MTB or 8-10spd Road cassette body. So if you have older road hubs and want to go 11 speed but didn't want an 11-40 this could work for you.
Also more rumors of the RS690 gravel-oriented group with a road clutch derailleur and subcompact cranks.
Full disclosure - a Rohloff is still on my n+1 list so it has yet to make it into my garage. Yeah-yeah I'm aware of all the con's but it just screams "gravel"!
If it wasn't for the weight, I think a lot of people would be using them, as they're in the same price range as high-end derailleur systems. From a weather/mud/gravel-proofness standpoint, you can't beat 'em.
I have shimano 105 on my masi cxgr and the rear derailleur handles the 11-36 cassette i installed last year no problem. This year i installed a sram mtb crankset with 42/28. What a life changer! Not much lost on top end (not like i was spinning out the 50x11 on gravel descents), and i can now pedal up the steep gravel roads of the hudson valley in ny. An added plus is there is far less redudancy in gearing. In usual setups (50/34 front and 11-32 or 36 rear), you end up with 10 redundant gears (check on gear calculator). In my current setup i think i have 2 redundant gears. So much more versatile, and easier on the knees.
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To run a larger Shimano 11-40 cassette with a regular shimano ultegra 105 5800 derailleur it seems the options are to either use the roadlink or use a longer cage for the rear derailleur.
However, I was wondering how the addition of the long cage alone allowed for the derailleur’s jockey wheel to be clear of the 11-40 cassette?
It doesn’t seem like just lengthening the derailleur cage/arm helps to lower the jockey wheel out of the way of the large cassette vs the roadlink modification which lowers the derailleur - but may have other drawbacks such as using the smaller cog gears.
any comments on this would be helpful since looking to either use a roadlink or this longer cage to fit a shimano 11-40 cassette.
It's a very common misconception*: the cage length aren't related to the size of the cassette, it's just about how long the chain wrap can be. For a big cassette, the only thing that matter is the movement of the parallelogram. With 1x, a short cage is plenty enough (the chain wrap with 11-40 is 29 teeth, less than a double with 11-25 cassette (16+14). But the movement have to be suffisant.
*Sram don't help with that, the long cage is not different just by the cage, there is also a longer upper part and the parallelogram's movement is different, model "Wifli".
Another detail which may be of interest: Unlike road rear derailleurs, the new 11/12 speed mountain bike RD's do NOT have an adjusting barrel. Depending upon your bike and preferences this may not matter. I really-really like the large range of adjustment available with the RD adjusting barrel.
All of my road, gravel and Frankenbike conversions have RD's with adjusting barrels. MTB's have the adjusting barrel integrated in the shift lever.
Greg makes a good observation. You can mitigate the lack of barrel adjuster when mixing an MTB RD and STI shifters by installing an inline barrel adjuster between your bars and the first cable stop on the frame.
Zurichman wrote:I live here in Pa. and yes we have mts. here. I have a triple road bike a 2006 Lemond Victoirre that climbs like a sweetheart. I bought a 2016 Raleigh Tamland 1. It weighs 24.5 lbs stock and 25.15 lbs with my mt pedals on it. I went to climb y local mt. the 1st ride out and though my heart was going to explode out my chest and I conider myself a decent climber. I had the LBS put on the Sram 11 x 36 and the road link and a new chain. I haven't had a chance to climb the mt with it yet but know that it has to be better than before. Since I am going to be doing some gravel grinding in those leetle hills in WV. I am going to need those lower gears.
Zman
You could run a RaceFace mtb cinch crank--there are different spindles available. Although I'm not sure that it would be particularly economical once you got the different spindle, the 2x spider, rings....and RF bb is garbage.
The Tamland comes with a 105 crank, which means it's designed for crank with a road chainline. You're not going to get that with a MTB crank. I ran into the same thing with my Niner, which came with Ultegra. To get a road spindle, you have to buy the Easton version of the crank that's much more expensive.
FSA has a 46/30 available in their alloy Energy line that lists for $270. If you can catch it on sale, you can probably find it for a little over $200. The 386EVO design will work on any type of road frame, you just need the proper BB and spacers.
I wanted lower gearing on my 2017 Tamland 1 and was looking into either a 46/30 crank or a 36-11 cassette. I went to my LBS and he suggested a Shimano xt 40-11. One of the bike shop owners had his bike set up that way (105 long cage rear derailleur and 105 front derailler) and let me take it for a quick ride. It shifted smoothly. I went with that set-up on my Tamland. Only other change was a longer chain of course. I now have a 23 inch low gear! The jumps are bigger but I can adjust to that change. I wanted that low a gear because of my age, bad knees, and weight amoung other things. I may try some bike-packing also.
bnystrom wrote:The Tamland comes with a 105 crank, which means it's designed for crank with a road chainline. You're not going to get that with a MTB crank.
The rear hub is 142 so technically it is MTB chainline.
![[biggrin]](https://cdn.websitetoolbox.com/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif "Big Grin - :D")
