I have a small bin of some white rags cut from old t-shirts that I use to clean my chain. I wipe down my chain and other drivetain parts after every ride. Even though my chain may look rather clean, the rag is always left covered in think black gunk...to the point where there is no clean areas after only 5 wipe downs or so (each rag about 6-10 inches square). So I'm frequently throwing out these rags. I've tried blue shop towels but they seems to thin and leave fibers everywhere. When I use a degreaser (once a month or so) and then wipe the chain, the rag is only showing some light grey streaks. Given how dirty the chain seems to be, should I degrease the chain more frequently? My goal would be to have the chain last longer; so is the fact that the chain is pretty gunky after only 1-3 rides a sign I should be degreasing more frequently? On my road bike I degrease maybe once every two months, and the chain (and rag) is far cleaner. Ah, the price we pay for fun in the gravel!
FYI - even though I'm not degreasing often, the chain runs smoothly and I lube as needed.
If you are already routinely wiping chain and jockey wheels both before and especially after applying (dry type) lube, I would just say don't re-lube until the white rag wipe starts to leave just a very light and thin gray streak— —only relube when chain starts getting clean and shiny. ***edit: and probably wipe more throughly after lubing- try to wipe it ALL off. If too much was applied, it will continue to seep out (black gunk).
I have tried all kind of lubes over the years. The best I have found and am sticking with is Rock N Roll Extreme. It doesn't collect the black gunk like others I have used. I use to use Orange Citrus to clean my chains. Not sure where I found it but Purple Power has change my 1/2 hr. clean the chain time to 5 minutes it's that good.
I've tried about every lube there is. There are a lot of good lubes, but the real problem is getting the chain clean before lubing. I used to occasionally go through the ritual of removing the chain and shaking in a bottle of kerosene etc... It works, but just too much of a hassle. I just bought an ultrasonic cleaner a little pricey, but I have lot's of bikes, and so does my wife. 😉 I haven't used it yet, but I hope it will make the cleaning part easier and much more thorough. I've seen that you don't even need to put the solvent in the cleaner. Just put distilled water in the cleaner, put solvent (kerosene.. whatever) in another plastic sprite, coke, water bottle, whatever, and insert the chain into that then put that into the ultrasonic cleaner. No mess and less chemical usage. But... like I mentioned, I haven't tried it yet, but I've tried about everything else and #1 is start with a clean chain.
Ultrasonic cleaner with Simple Green citrus degreaser for me. Leave it in for a few min while I'm doing other stuff, then toss it in the crockpot of wax.
Breaking apart the wax so it doesn't clog up your derailleur takes a bit of time, but lasts and is clean and eco friendly.
I lube my chain on my indoor gravel bike. Even though I used the ultrasonic cleaner on everything before bringing it inside for the winter the chain still turned black. I used to think it was road grime but now I think I'm so massively strong I'm baking the lube and burning it. Gotta be that.
When describing your routine, you don't mention wiping the chain off after applying lube, nor whether you are using wet or dry lube.
I only ask because many people neglect to wipe the chain after lubing; they seem to think that more lube = better performance, which isn't true. Lube on the surface of a chain = dirt magnet. So, lube, turn the cranks slowly for a minute or so, wipe down, and ride. Additionally, wet lube tends to attract way more dirt and grime than dry lube, so I recommend a dry lube like Dumonde Tech Dry if you don't ride in wet conditions; though, the others mentioned here are all fine as well.
p0is0n0ak wrote:When describing your routine, you don't mention wiping the chain off after applying lube, nor whether you are using wet or dry lube.
I only ask because many people neglect to wipe the chain after lubing; they seem to think that more lube = better performance, which isn't true. Lube on the surface of a chain = dirt magnet. So, lube, turn the cranks slowly for a minute or so, wipe down, and ride. Additionally, wet lube tends to attract way more dirt and grime than dry lube, so I recommend a dry lube like Dumonde Tech Dry if you don't ride in wet conditions; though, the others mentioned here are all fine as well.
Lube is either Progold or Rock n Roll (I think they're considered dry).
After applying the lube, I slowly rotate the chain and kind of push the lube into the rollers with my fingers, as a veteran mech told me to do when I first started cycling years ago. I then rotate the chain 10-20 revolutions...and then I usually wait to wipe off the chain...sometimes up to hours or even overnight, but usually at least 1-2 hours. Reason I do this - when I apply lube and wipe off within minutes, the next ride the chain is much louder than my usual method. But yeah, I always wipe off the chain after applying lube, and after every ride. The wait time to wipe a lubed chain has me curious
I was a ProGold user for over a decade before I started mixing my own lube. The solvent in ProGold is slow to evaporate and they recommend allowing it to dry overnight after lubing. My regimen was to apply it to each link, spin the cranks for a minute or two, then wipe it down. If the chain was really dirty, I'd repeat the process, then let it sit overnight. Before riding, wipe it down again. After the first ride, wipe it down to remove the lube that was squeezed out. Also, remember to wipe down the cassette and chainrings as well.
This worked well and kept the chain from getting grungy. The fact that your chain was noticeably quieter for the first ride after lubing is probably an indication of excess lube. The amount of crud you're wiping off pretty much confirms that. You only need a thin layer of lube inside the chain.
THIS was a shocker for me - once or twice a year I like to thoroughly clean and degrease my chains by soaking them in a bottle of mineral spirits (which I save and use over and over again after running it through a coffee filter). The process always leaves a thick layer of black goo in the bottom of the bottle which I assumed was dirt. One time, I left half a quick-link on the chain during cleaning and, predictably, it came off and was lost in the bottom of the bottle in the black goo. I used a magnetic wand to fish out the quick-link and was horrified to pull out a large black ball of metallic powder along with the quick-link. Whoa. What I has always assumed to be "dirt" was actually in large part disintegrated bike chain pulled out of the rollers during cleaning.
Given the amount of METAL being wiped off during each cleaning, it's surprising to me that a bike chain lasts as long as it does!
Looking online, pricing for CRD Hydroforce is slightly higher than listed (over $30/gallon), but Oil Eater and Purple Power are considerably lower, at under $10/gallon. However, they're potentially hazardous to painted surfaces and metals like aluminum, so you don't want to be spraying them on your bikes. For cleaning chains and cassettes off the bike, they should work well.
bnystrom wrote:Looking online, pricing for CRD Hydroforce is slightly higher than listed (over $30/gallon), but Oil Eater and Purple Power are considerably lower, at under $10/gallon. However, they're potentially hazardous to painted surfaces and metals like aluminum, so you don't want to be spraying them on your bikes. For cleaning chains and cassettes off the bike, they should work well.
Thanks for the great link!
Even at $30 a gallon the CRD Hydroforce is a bargain when compared to the stuff sold in bike shops.
IMO, for cleaning chains the ability to breakdown grease is more important. In fact all of the cleaners seem to do just fine on oil.
More important for me (emphasis on IMO...) is the safety of the cleaner to myself and the bikes. Appreciate your pointing out how some of the degreasers attack paint and aluminum.
While it's possible that grease removal efficiency would impact the removal of wax lubes, oil removal efficiency would be more important for oil-based lubes, which includes most drip lubes.
Grease is a combination of oil and a thickener that the formulators call "soap". The soap is the delivery mechanism (carrier) for the oil, which is the actual lubricant, though some greases contain PTFE (Teflon), molybdenum disulfide, or other lubricants and additives. You may have seen grease separate, where the oil seeps out and the soap get thicker and more like wax. My assumption is that degreasers that work well on grease dissolve the soap effectively.
I agree that $30/gallon isn't bad, particularly since you can and should dilute it. According to what I read, water is needed to wash away the crap that the degreaser separates from the metal surface. The stuff I'm using now is actually designed to be mixed with two parts water to one part degreaser.
Noonievut wrote: My goal would be to have the chain last longer; so is the fact that the chain is pretty gunky after only 1-3 rides a sign I should be degreasing more frequently? On my road bike I degrease maybe once every two months, and the chain (and rag) is far cleaner. Ah, the price we pay for fun in the gravel!
FYI - even though I'm not degreasing often, the chain runs smoothly and I lube as needed.
I know you did not ask for this advice, but listening to your painful description almost compels me to tell you to stop using lube and wax your chain. In 35 years of riding, nothing blew me away (from a bike maintenance standpoint) like the change from lube to wax. I was doing chain maintenance ever ride when the summer dust turns to flour consistency. My chain was a mess. With waxing, at the worst I have to touch it every two weeks. Chains last longer and no lube has shown to be as efficient as chain wax, so you reduce maintenance and go faster, well, a little bit faster. I can promise I spend less time waxing than what you describe and there is no black muck anymore. None on your hands, none on your clothes, none on the back seat of your wife's car that will cause a fight.
While that all sounds wonderful, you neglected to explain what a complete pain in the a$$ it is to wax a chain.
First, you have to take it off the bike, so be sure to invest in extra connecting links or pins.
Next, completely clean/degrease the chain using something that dissolves wax (not all solvents do).
Let the chain dry thoroughly so the solvent doesn't boil and splatter when it hits the hot wax.
With the chain clean, melt the wax lube in a double-boiler on a stove (directly heating wax in a pot on a burner is a fire hazard) or a dedicated "crock pot".
Carefully put the chain in, taking care not to splash hot wax on yourself.
Swirl it around and let it sit for a while to get the lube into the chain.
Carefully extract the hot chain and figure out how to suspend it over the pot so it can drip the expensive wax lube back into it, rather than wasting it or dripping all over the place. Try to remove as much of the excess wax as possible using gloves or whatever.
Once the chain is cool, install it on the bike. Turn the pedals and watch flakes of wax go all over the bike and the floor.
Now you can finally go for a ride. Keep in mind that wax lubes generally do not hold up well in wet conditions, so you'll end up doing this after every wet/muddy ride. Fun!
With a drip lube: In dry conditions, I typically just wipe the chain down with a rag and some mineral spirits to remove any lube and dirt on the outside, apply fresh lube, work it in and wipe the chain down with a dry rag. Worst case, I'll repeat the process. It takes a total of 5-10 minutes, once every couple of weeks or so.
After wet/muddy rides, I always rinse the muck off the bike and drivetrain. Worst case, I use a little degreaser and a brush on the chain, cassette and chainrings. I wipe the chain dry and apply lube as above, which drives out any remaining moisture. Total time 10-15 minutes.
While I usually allow the lube to dry overnight, the bike is rideable immediately after lubing.
bnystrom wrote:Wow! You really did not have fun did you. .
First, you have to take it off the bike, so be sure to invest in extra connecting links or pins. Yes, it takes approximately 15 seconds and I've never had a problem with reusing connecting links.
Next, completely clean/degrease the chain using something that dissolves wax (not all solvents do). You do this one time. Drop it in boiling soapy water, shake it around a bit and done. Five minutes and that's if you include the time it takes to boil the water.
Let the chain dry thoroughly so the solvent doesn't boil and splatter when it hits the hot wax. I've never done this. I put it in the basket of my deep fat fryer and then leave it for half an hour or whatever while I do other stuff.
With the chain clean, melt the wax lube in a double-boiler on a stove (directly heating wax in a pot on a burner is a fire hazard) or a dedicated "crock pot". I was given a deep fat fryer by my health conscious niece. I plug it in drop the chain in and set a timer.
Carefully put the chain in, taking care not to splash hot wax on yourself. I suppose this is possible if you are an idiot.
Swirl it around and let it sit for a while to get the lube into the chain. Nope. Drop it in the wax and leave it for half an hour or whatever. Go do something else.
Carefully extract the hot chain and figure out how to suspend it over the pot so it can drip the expensive wax lube back into it, rather than wasting it or dripping all over the place. Try to remove as much of the excess wax as possible using gloves or whatever. Parafin wax cost me like $5 for 10 pounds. I've been using half of it for six or eight months. When it is cool to the touch, I thread it back through the derailleurs. Like about another one minute. Yes, some of the expensive wax melts will gain you a watt or three extra, but the main advantage is the WAX, not the addiitives. Even if it made me slower, I might still do it for the convenience and lack of mess, grease stains, dirty hands, ect.
Once the chain is cool, install it on the bike. Turn the pedals and watch flakes of wax go all over the bike and the floor. Which, unlike grease, can be swept up in 10 seconds and can be disposed.
Now you can finally go for a ride. I am curious to know if you actually did all of the above or you just collected all the information other people have spouted.
Keep in mind that wax lubes generally do not hold up well in wet conditions, so you'll end up doing this after every wet/muddy ride. Fun! Fair enough, but I live in the desert and never see water except the occasional stream crossing in the spring. The OP was noting that his chain was really getting messy from picking up dirt. He did not mention water being a huge concern. Wax does not pick up dirt. It does not get black. With waxing, gone are the days of dreading a dropped chain, a wheel change or just touching your leg on the chain or chainring. The wax does not leave marks on anything.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion but the OP should at least be aware there are counter arguments to nearly all of the things you did not like. Chain waxing takes me probably five minutes of total time. My primary bike, a multi-surface/gravel bike, gets waxed every two to three weeks depending on the mileage. Because they don't get dirty, my chains have been lasting a really long time and that made me buy more expensive, quality chains because I felt like there is better value. The deep-fat fryer heats the wax up to 250 degrees and the wax soaks into all the little gaps. For me, this has been virtually a heaven-send given the dust and messy conditions of my chain for so long. I have yet to find any disadvantage.
My first experience with waxing chains probably dates back to before you born, the '70's. I used straight paraffin on chains and while you're correct that it's cheap, frankly, it sucked. I tried it again in the '90's and it still sucked. It didn't last worth a damn and if there was a hint of moisture around, the chain would start squeaking in a heartbeat. It may well work better for you in the desert, but it doesn't work for me at all in New England. Perhaps the latest wax lubes are better - additives can actually make a huge difference in durability - but I'm not willing to go through the hassle or expense when I have a simple, quick and inexpensive system that consistently lasts 500-700 miles per application on my road bikes and keeps my off-road bike chains running smoothly under a variety of conditions, from dust to muck.
It's pretty obvious that you're seriously understating the amount of time you actually spend on lubing your chains, but I'm sure others have already figured that out.
I currently use a drip lube I blend myself, but I've used quite a few over the years, both during and after my stint in the bike biz. Keeping a chain gunk-free comes down to picking the right lube and applying it properly. The biggest issue I see is people thinking that if some lube is good, more must be better. The point is to get lube into the chain, then wipe as much as possible off the outside. It's amazing how many people never wipe down a chain after lubing it.
Another thing that's important is to remove the factory lube, not because it's not a good lubricant, but because it attracts dirt like a magnet and will continue to ooze out of the chain for quite a while, making a continuous mess. Once the factory lube is removed, apply an appropriate lube for your riding conditions, work it in and wipe the chain down thoroughly. Repeat if you feel it's necessary. Let it dry, then go ride. It's a good idea to give the chain a quick wipe after the first ride to remove any lube that got forced out.
bnystrom wrote: You present pretty good points that I've never had to worry about or consider. But just as I never worry about water, I doubt you appreciate the mess that fine, flour-like dust presents in the desert. Even where I grew up in Utah did not have dust like here in the SoCal high desert where ATVs beat the dirt into submission.
It's pretty obvious that you're seriously understating the amount of time you actually spend on lubing your chains, but I'm sure others have already figured that out.
Well, no, I'm not. Actually, you saying that made me curious. I just walked downstairs and pulled the chain off in 22 seconds from the time I picked up the chain tool. It would then take me 20 seconds to drop the chain in the deep fat fryer and plug it in. So we are still under 1 minute. I come back 45 minutes later and lift out the basket, so less than a minute again. Come back ten minutes later and install the chain, which I just did in a minute 45 and I can tell you a broken in, flexible chain took me three times as long to install. A waxed chain is stiff and easy to poke through the derailleurs. Then spend a minute spinning off the excess wax and I'm done, though you could just wait until the next ride. Now, before the deep fat fryer it was more complicated, but now it takes me less than five minutes total and I don't use or need rags and I don't even have to wash my hands. I just took the chain off and reinstalled it quickly because you can just grab a wax chain and it does not stain your hands. I walked back upstairs and started typing without needing to wash my hands. Try that with any lube known to man. None of that invalidates your points about how waxing is not as effective in the wet, but I can and do take care of chains in the amount of time I stated. I would probably do it if it took me five times as long, but since it is far faster and 10 times more effective at keeping a chain clean than any lube where dust is involved, then I thought it worth mentioning to the OP. I don't really re-wax because the chain is dirty; I do it because the wax wears off and the chain starts to make a little noise. Because it is so easy, I don't dread it like I used to with lubes and so I do it more often (every two weeks, now) and my chains last longer, run quieter and don't stain anything. It's lovely.
I never meant that taking the chain off was time consuming, rather that you can't do a wax lube job without removing it from the bike. Drip lube is easily done with the chain installed.
As for quick links, I typically reuse them too, but I had one come apart when I removed a chain recently (a pin fell out of one side), so I encourage people to be cautious, particularly if the links you have are not specifically made to be reusable.
From what you're saying, you're taking a dirty chain and dropping it into the wax without cleaning it first, correct? That's not going to remove the grit that's accumulated inside the chain. It's also contaminating your wax with whatever does come off the chain. I would never do that. With the liquid lubes I use, there's considerable flushing out of the old lube and grime. If a chain is really bad (rarely), I'll take it off and drop it in an ultrasonic cleaner, which is as simple to use as your fryer. BTW, if you're going to do wax, that seems like a smart way, but I would still agitate the chain in order to insure complete penetration of the wax.
FWIW, we do have some areas with really fine, silty dust in the summer, so I understand your point. My chains don't get gunked up, they just get dusty on the outside. I end up lubing more often when riding under those conditions, as it definitely dries the chain out faster, though it's still surprising how long a good drip lube will last. More often than not, I re-lube because I think I should, not because the chain is giving me an indication that it needs it.
