Adding harder gear to delay spinning out

Hello,

I currently have a 30/46 with Shimano 105, 11-34. I just started riding in August and don't have much power to speak of, but I still end up spinning out a lot on even the shorter descents in my area.  Based on rough calculations it appears that 30/46 basically gives me additional easy gear vs a compact and I use this gear enough that I'd rather not give it up.

Is there anything I can do to increase my hard gear without losing my bottom gear?  I've seen Wolftooth and jTek make something you can use to add more easy gears but does something exist to increase number of harder gears?  I'm guessing I could switch to a Standard or Semi-Compact then install one of those things to give me more easy gears but that sounds like a lot of work... I'd much rather just increase my big-sprocket/small-cog or something similar if that's possible.

Thanks!

I'm pretty sure you can change the 46 chainring for a 48 or 50.  DONE.

smoothmoose wrote:I'm pretty sure you can change the 46 chainring for a 48 or 50.  DONE.

The front derailleur may not handle an 18-20 tooth spread between chainrings; it's certainly outside of Shimano's specs. Also, chainrings are sold in paired combinations which are "timed" to each other to insure smooth shifting. It's likely some shifting performance will be lost when you start mixing and matching chainrings.

A 46x11 gear will get you 37 mph at a 110 rpm cadence, which is easily achievable by experienced riders. Unless Bt50 is hitting speeds in excess of that, it seems that what he needs is to work on his spinning, not higher gears. This is a common misconception among beginners who haven't developed their spin yet.

bnystrom wrote:
A 46x11 gear (113 inch) will get you 37mph at a 110 rpm cadence. Unless Bt50 is hitting speeds in excess of that, it seems that what he needs is to work on his spinning, not higher gears. This is a common misconception among beginners who haven't developed their spin yet.

This. And learn how to go into a deep tuck on those descents, which will probably result in higher speeds than sitting and spinning.

Otherwise, switch to a 50-34 crankset...That's the only way to get higher gears with your current setup.

What cadence are you spinning out at? As a new rider you might need to work on some cadence drills to help with that aspect, just a thought. Normal riding probably should be occurring between 80 and 100 rpm with blips above that. 

BS

BubbaS wrote:What cadence are you spinning out at? As a new rider you might need to work on some cadence drills to help with that aspect, just a thought. Normal riding probably should be occurring between 80 and 100 rpm with blips above that. 
BS

This, too.

With a little practice, it's easy to spin (at least briefly, as when starting a descent) at 110 or 115 rpm...And once your speed is >37mph or so, you're fine to tuck and coast.

I live in a very hilly area, and have ridden (and raced against) plenty of people on single-speed gravel bikes. Even with many climbs that hit 15%-20% grades and higher, popular gearing seems to be chainrings of 38-42t and cogs of around 17-20t.  That always reminds me that my own finicky gearing preferences have as much to do with my fitness (weak!) as with physics.

Also, getting up the other side, is not about getting speed going down- but instead about being in the proper gear and applying strong power as you first begin the uphill portion to best carry the free momentum the downhill gave you (downshifting freely until settling into your final climbing gear if it’s a long(er) hill.

bnystrom wrote:
A 46x11 gear will get you 37 mph at a 110 rpm cadence, which is easily achievable by experienced riders. Unless Bt50 is hitting speeds in excess of that, it seems that what he needs is to work on his spinning, not higher gears. This is a common misconception among beginners who haven't developed their spin yet.

I've gotta agree here.  A 50t is not even a 10% change in gear ratio over a 46t, so its not going to get you much.  If you are spinning out with a 46, then you either aren't pedaling at a very fast cadence, or the downhill is so big that you're going to spin out no matter what gearing you have.  Pro riders who put out huge watts, way more than us mere mortals, still only use 52t or 53t chainrings.  I also must assume you are talking about on the road.  If you are spinning out with a 46t on gravel I would be shocked.

bnystrom wrote:
The front derailleur may not handle an 18-20 tooth spread between chainrings; it's certainly outside of Shimano's specs. Also, chainrings are sold in paired combinations which are "timed" to each other to insure smooth shifting. It's likely some shifting performance will be lost when you start mixing and matching chainrings.

A 46x11 gear will get you 37 mph at a 110 rpm cadence, which is easily achievable by experienced riders. Unless Bt50 is hitting speeds in excess of that, it seems that what he needs is to work on his spinning, not higher gears. This is a common misconception among beginners who haven't developed their spin yet.

Yeah, I was affraid that 18-20 was going to be too much jump... 

yeah, my gps and cadence sensor show pretty much exactly that 37mph and 100rpms give or take 10%...

Koyote wrote:

This. And learn how to go into a deep tuck on those descents, which will probably result in higher speeds than sitting and spinning.

Otherwise, switch to a 50-34 crankset...That's the only way to get higher gears with your current setup.

I actually just started working a lot on being more aero, but I'd rather pedal and go slower than super-tuck and go faster.  I feel more super-hero like pedaling at high (high to me) speeds.

bnystrom wrote:
The front derailleur may not handle an 18-20 tooth spread between chainrings; it's certainly outside of Shimano's specs. Also, chainrings are sold in paired combinations which are "timed" to each other to insure smooth shifting. It's likely some shifting performance will be lost when you start mixing and matching chainrings.

[...]

Shifting with the front derailleur performance isn't a huge deal to me since I don't shift sprockets that often (small when climbing, big with descending or flat; for the most part).  So if it worked reliably, even if slow, that might be ok.  

As pointed out by ljsmith going to 50t won't provide _that_ big of a boost though so maybe not worth it.  Maybe if/when I get stronger I might try bigger than that, but for now I'll probably just stick with what I have (I wore out my sprockets so was about to upgrade and was trying to decide to go bigger or not).

ljsmith wrote:

I've gotta agree here.  A 50t is not even a 10% change in gear ratio over a 46t, so its not going to get you much.  If you are spinning out with a 46, then you either aren't pedaling at a very fast cadence, or the downhill is so big that you're going to spin out no matter what gearing you have.  Pro riders who put out huge watts, way more than us mere mortals, still only use 52t or 53t chainrings.  I also must assume you are talking about on the road.  If you are spinning out with a 46t on gravel I would be shocked.

Good point!  I guess I didn't really think that through.

Yeah, on road.  I have yet to spin out on gravel.

Skldmark wrote:Also, getting up the other side, is not about getting speed going down- but instead about being in the proper gear and applying strong power as you first begin the uphill portion to best carry the free momentum the downhill gave you (downshifting freely until settling into your final climbing gear if it’s a long(er) hill.

Makes sense.  I definitely need to work on that... I've been using my cadence as a guide which seems to be helping.

Bt50 wrote:

Makes sense.  I definitely need to work on that... I've been using my cadence as a guide which seems to be helping.

Most decent computers nowadays can show (and record for ride files) your cadence if you buy an extra sensor for a few bucks. Get one of those and do some cadence drills (google it). Even if you aren't worried about going faster, working on your cadence will help you develop a smoother pedal stroke, which is more efficient all the time.

For what it's worth, my newer gravel bike has a low gear of 48-11, and I rarely use that combo...I usually stop pedaling and just tuck and coast after hitting my 48-13.

-with tire sizes of 700x40 and larger even strong riders seldom desire a chainring larger than 46; otherwise you are forced to shift to the small chainring too frequently, and with that big jump (30-46), your rhythm is badly disrupted.

Have you considered getting fat and coasting downhill?  It's working great for me.

Bt50 wrote:
I wore out my sprockets so was about to upgrade and was trying to decide to go bigger or not).

Wait a minute. You've only been riding since August and you've already worn out your chainrings??? Something's not right here, as chainrings typically last for years.

If you mean you wore out your cassette, that still doesn't make any sense unless you ride in serious mud frequently.

bnystrom wrote:
Wait a minute. You've only been riding since August and you've already worn out your chainrings??? Something's not right here, as chainrings typically last for years.

If you mean you wore out your cassette, that still doesn't make any sense unless you ride in serious mud frequently.

Oh, good grief, yeah. I didn't catch that. 

I once had to replace a cassette on a gravel bike after only 4,000 miles...Coming from a road background, that was crazy, but it was true. But I seriously doubt that the OP has ridden 4,000 miles since August. Just like I seriously doubt that the OP is spinning out on a 46-11.

OP, is your bike running poorly? If so, have you replaced the chain? You may have worn that out since August.

Koyote wrote:

Most decent computers nowadays can show (and record for ride files) your cadence if you buy an extra sensor for a few bucks. Get one of those and do some cadence drills (google it). Even if you aren't worried about going faster, working on your cadence will help you develop a smoother pedal stroke, which is more efficient all the time.

For what it's worth, my newer gravel bike has a low gear of 48-11, and I rarely use that combo...I usually stop pedaling and just tuck and coast after hitting my 48-13.

That's how I know my cadence accurately. Spending $30 was better than counting a lot to me.

bnystrom wrote:
Wait a minute. You've only been riding since August and you've already worn out your chainrings??? Something's not right here, as chainrings typically last for years.

If you mean you wore out your cassette, that still doesn't make any sense unless you ride in serious mud frequently.

Bike  wasn't brand new.