SRAM AXS

30 replies · 1,638 views

KyleM
4 posts
#1Feb 6, 2019, 9:22 AM
This looks pretty cool and related to gravel:

https://launch.sram.com/en/axs
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HollyBoni
333 posts
#2Feb 7, 2019, 5:30 AM
"The SRAM RED® crankset leverages a pivotal design innovation: smaller chainrings and a wider cassette range."

What an innovation, instead of a 34T small chainring now you can get a 33T! Wow! The widest ratio cassette is a 10-33, so still the lowest achievable ratio is just 1:1.
Still no reasonably priced GX level drop bar Eagle groupset.
Great, thank you SRAM!
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Volsung
878 posts
#3Feb 7, 2019, 5:56 AM
The crank ring sizing is neat, but then I looked at the price.
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ljsmith
762 posts
#4Feb 7, 2019, 7:31 AM
HollyBoni wrote:"The SRAM RED® crankset leverages a pivotal design innovation: smaller chainrings and a wider cassette range."

What an innovation, instead of a 34T small chainring now you can get a 33T! Wow! The widest ratio cassette is a 10-33, so still the lowest achievable ratio is just 1:1.
Still no reasonably priced GX level drop bar Eagle groupset.
Great, thank you SRAM!

I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw it. Why would I want a 46 33? I'm guessing the 10-42 cassette won't work with the rear derailleur. I guess you could use a FSA adventure crankset for a better gear setup. Personally I love the idea of 12 gears for tighter spacing, but I don't want electronic shifitng. I prefer a mechanical group because I don't need one more thing that I will forget to charge. If I had a dollar for every time I forgot to charge my Garmin, or my lights I would be a rich man, so electronic is just not for me. And to top it all off, I think that super expensive crankset looks awful. I have SRAM on all my drop bar bikes so I am a fan of their road groups, but this group doesn't look well though out to me. Maybe its what pro racers were asking for?
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HollyBoni
333 posts
#5Feb 8, 2019, 3:18 AMedited
You get the same high gear for DAT sprint finish BUT with a smaller chainring, meaning you can lose like 3.8 grams! Amazing!
https://www.bike24.com/p2316554.html?q=axs

1x12. Cassette options: 10-26, 10-28, 10-33. Chainring options: 40, 46.
What? Why? What's the point?

Just another road race groupset. They even went with a direct mount system. With that you're not even limited by BCD, why not give lower ratios for the gravel/adventure market... I don't get it.
I wouldn't buy the group anyways because of the price. But sadly there is nothing exciting to trickle down to the cheaper groupsets...
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on7hewey
2 posts
#6Feb 8, 2019, 7:12 AM
I will look forward to when this tech trickles down to my price range in say... 10 years.
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Caliper
38 posts
#7Feb 9, 2019, 4:34 PM
Wow at the hate... Folks are missing that they claim any AXS parts can pair with any AXS shifters. So, you can take the MTB rear derailleur and pair it with the drop bar shifters. That's going to give capacity for whatever 1x or 2x cassrtte is needed. Yes, Red is a road race groupset because that's what SRAM RED is; aimed squarely at the pro peloton. That's the market where you can sell a cutting edge 12sp groupset. This all is great for gravel still because it brings back the compatibility between road and MTB components that existed with 10sp. It sounds like a Force level AXS groupset is in the works as well, so that should help with the price also.

I'm really looking forward to hearing more of all the sync shift options that they have lined up for 2x systems to either automatically handle FD shifts or to automatically compensate for FD shifts with the RD. Looks like some cool setup capabilities there.
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ljsmith
762 posts
#8Feb 9, 2019, 7:52 PM
Caliper wrote:Wow at the hate... Folks are missing that they claim any AXS parts can pair with any AXS shifters. So, you can take the MTB rear derailleur and pair it with the drop bar shifters. That's going to give capacity for whatever 1x or 2x cassrtte is needed. Yes, Red is a road race groupset because that's what SRAM RED is; aimed squarely at the pro peloton. That's the market where you can sell a cutting edge 12sp groupset. This all is great for gravel still because it brings back the compatibility between road and MTB components that existed with 10sp. It sounds like a Force level AXS groupset is in the works as well, so that should help with the price also.

I'm really looking forward to hearing more of all the sync shift options that they have lined up for 2x systems to either automatically handle FD shifts or to automatically compensate for FD shifts with the RD. Looks like some cool setup capabilities there.

A few things.

1. SRAM is marketing this group as gravel group just as much as a pro race group. However, for those of us who ride gravel we are looking at it and not really seeing what we need here. The fact that you are looking at cobbling together a group from various sources shows that even you must admit that SRAM is wrong.

2. They could have made all their mechanical stuff compatible, they purposely chose not to and continue to do so. I shouldn't be forced to go to an expensive electronic group just to be able to piece together the parts I need.

3. The price of the group is comical. $690 for a crankset, really???? It ought to have titanium chainrings and plated in platinum for that price. I have a bike with full SRAM Red 22 and I didn't have to sell a kidney to pay for it.

4. At least for me, I prefer a high end, lightweight mechanical group. I do not want or need electronic shifting. It looks like mechanical shifting is going to die off for high end groups, I am not happy about this (I hope I am wrong). I don't want to be stuck with a Rival or Apex groups because they will be the only mechanical groups left.
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HollyBoni
333 posts
#9Feb 10, 2019, 2:42 AMedited
Caliper wrote:Wow at the hate... Folks are missing that they claim any AXS parts can pair with any AXS shifters.

Doesn't matter if they're electronic or not, the Eagle RDs (and previous 1x SRAM RDs) are 1x specific. You can't use them in a 2x setup. So with the 2x setup you're still stuck with a 1:1 lowest gear.

Yes, it gives you the ability to run a 1x12 with a 10-50 and drop bars shifters, which is what i've been waiting for. But at what price...
The MTB world already has 12spd at the NX level. That's why i'm hating.

Both SRAM and Shimano shouldn't have gone with different cable pulls for road and MTB stuff in the first place, but even tho they did, how much work would it take to release a mechanical, reasonably priced drop bar Eagle group?
The cassette is there. The RD is there, it just needs some tweaking for the different cable pull. The chain is there. The shifter needs an extra click, and probably some cable pull related tweaking. The chainring is there, drop bar bikes just potentially need larger sizes.
Doesn't sound that complicated to me.

Also, I still don't understand the chainring sizes. As it was said above me, SRAM also markets this group as a gravel group. If you design a new direct mount standard anyways, why wouldn't you give the gravel/adventure market options for lower gearing? You're not limited by BCD after all.

The groupset is out of my budget anyways, i'm just waiting for the trickle down stuff. But i'm not sure what I want from this groupset to trickle down... Yeah, wireless is cool, and if I could buy a wireless group that would cost as much as a mechanical GX/Rival level group that would be cool, but i'd be happier with a drivetrain that would actually have the gear range I want.

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bnystrom
459 posts
#10Feb 13, 2019, 9:24 AM
While there are some good things here, like the cross-compatibility and synchro options mentioned above, and the fluid damper in the rear derailleur, the glaring mistakes are going to really hurt adoption of this group.

I'll never be convinced that 10-tooth cogs are a good idea for any application and I have zero use for a 46x10 on a gravel bike (I just switched mine to a 12-32, 11-speed, as I really don't need a 46x11, either). The claim that increased chain tension makes up for the increased friction with a 10t cog is complete BS that's based on an old, flawed study that's been thoroughly debunked. How could SRAM think they'd actually be able to get away with that crap?

I don't buy the nonsense about a 13-tooth chainring difference somehow being "magic", as my current 46/30 shifts just fine and provides much better range without having to resort to a monster cassette. A 30x32 low gear is fine for most of my gravel riding and keeps the gearing gaps reasonable.

By far the biggest - and worst - joke with this system is the power meter integrated with the chainrings. When the time comes to replace your chainrings, the replacement will cost you $410! (that's half of the new price of $820!) Basically, you're always one rock strike away from a huge bill. This is just mindbogglingly stupid and I can't fathom how anyone could have thought that this was a good idea. I suspect that the only people riding these cranks will be sponsored riders who get them for free.

While it's true that Red is meant to be a road group first and foremost, I don't see any huge advantages for it in that market, either. You save a few grams with smaller outer rings, but at the cost of having to run 10-tooth cogs that wear fast, increase drivetrain friction and aren't smooth pedaling. A 1-tooth smaller inner ring accomplishes essentially nothing. SRAM would have been better off to add the 12th cog and the other real benefits to their existing products, rather than trying to completely re-engineer the drivetrain and screw it up the way they have.

It will be interesting to see if this stuff actually sells or not.
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Caliper
38 posts
#11Feb 16, 2019, 4:40 PM
ljsmith wrote:

A few things.

1. SRAM is marketing this group as gravel group just as much as a pro race group. However, for those of us who ride gravel we are looking at it and not really seeing what we need here. The fact that you are looking at cobbling together a group from various sources shows that even you must admit that SRAM is wrong.

2. They could have made all their mechanical stuff compatible, they purposely chose not to and continue to do so. I shouldn't be forced to go to an expensive electronic group just to be able to piece together the parts I need.

3. The price of the group is comical. $690 for a crankset, really???? It ought to have titanium chainrings and plated in platinum for that price. I have a bike with full SRAM Red 22 and I didn't have to sell a kidney to pay for it.

4. At least for me, I prefer a high end, lightweight mechanical group. I do not want or need electronic shifting. It looks like mechanical shifting is going to die off for high end groups, I am not happy about this (I hope I am wrong). I don't want to be stuck with a Rival or Apex groups because they will be the only mechanical groups left.

1) Yes, and as a gravel group, I'd see it as a "pro" level gravel race group, not a casual gravel touring group. As far as cobbling together things from different sources, isn't that what Rival1 and Force1 already are, in essence? Just applying MTB tech to drop bar shifters? There's no need for a special Red1 AXS derailleur when the wireless will let the MTB one work just fine.

2) I agree, but Shimano and SRAM didn't. No idea why, because you'd think it would increase sales. Going to more compatibility in the bike industry would be a good thing

3) SRAM Red prices are competitive with same level Shimano stuff. Red AXS offers benefits that no other manufacturer has. Sorry, want to be the first kid on your block with the shiny new stuff and you'll pay. Early adopters and all. They have mentioned a lower cost version coming (Force AXS?) Red AXS is far from my price range either.

4) Sorry? My bike are all cabled and some even have *gasp* rim brakes so I sympathize. Campy has 2x12 mechanical available and a 11-32 cassette for it. Sounds like a good gravel option.

HollyBoni wrote:Also, I still don't understand the chainring sizes. As it was said above me, SRAM also markets this group as a gravel group. If you design a new direct mount standard anyways, why wouldn't you give the gravel/adventure market options for lower gearing? You're not limited by BCD after all.

1:1 lowest gear is lower than what SRAM Red currently offers (34/32 in eTap) Red doesn't offer gearing for adventure biking because it's a race group. Look at the guys winning Dirty Kanza though. I notice that some don't even get down to 1:1. I'd expect SRAM to put the lower gearing options in Force, like they do now.
delore
86 posts
#12Feb 16, 2019, 10:12 PM
I've been (politely :-) criticised on this forum before when I mentioned my frustration with the SRAM 1x groupsets that to me have been a confusing mix of MTB and road. I agree with @Caliper that the AXS road/MTB compatibility solves a lot of this. I assume this will also be the case with the new Force in April. I only hope there will be a fully mechanical version also. Makes me wonder if / when Shimano will bring out a 'proper' 1x gravel-specific groupset.

Caliper wrote:Wow at the hate... Folks are missing that they claim any AXS parts can pair with any AXS shifters. So, you can take the MTB rear derailleur and pair it with the drop bar shifters. That's going to give capacity for whatever 1x or 2x cassrtte is needed.
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delore
86 posts
#13Feb 16, 2019, 10:14 PM
HollyBoni wrote:
Yes, it gives you the ability to run a 1x12 with a 10-50 and drop bars shifters, which is what i've been waiting for. But at what price...
The MTB world already has 12spd at the NX level. That's why i'm hating.

Totally agree - really frustrating!
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Involuntarysoul
76 posts
#14Mar 12, 2019, 12:24 AM
all looks good until the $350 cassette, that's like pissing money away
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HollyBoni
333 posts
#15Mar 12, 2019, 5:13 AM
Involuntarysoul wrote:all looks good until the $350 cassette, that's like pissing money away

https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-XG-1299-12-Speed-Cassette/dp/B01HQE0JY4

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bnystrom
459 posts
#16Mar 17, 2019, 5:04 PM
If you look farther down in the listing, they show the rear derailleur available for $298.
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HollyBoni
333 posts
#17Mar 17, 2019, 5:18 PM
bnystrom wrote:If you look farther down in the listing, they show the rear derailleur available for $298.

What a steal!
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ljsmith
762 posts
#18Apr 3, 2019, 10:57 AM
SRAM Force axs dropped today. Unfortunately, despite it supposedly having options for gravel, it has no other gear options from SRAM Red. So as a gravel rider I am left with the options of a 10-33 cassette or an Eagle 10-50 cassette? 10-33 doesn't give enough for climbing and 10-50 has massive jumps. When will someone build a good groupset dedicated to gravel? Having to choose between road or mountain gear setups (or trying to combine the two) just isn't ideal.

https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/sram-force-etap-axs-53803/
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bnystrom
459 posts
#19Apr 3, 2019, 11:40 AM
Your best bet is to figure out what you want for a gearing range, then find the crank and cassette you need to achieve it. In my case, I've decided that a 46/30 crank with a 12-32 cassette is fine for my gravel rides and I'm using an FSA crank with a Miche 11-speed cassette. If you prefer a 1x setup, there are plenty of cassette options and you can get chainrings in even tooth options from the 20's to the mid 40's, or even larger.

Once you've nailed that down decide what brand of derailleurs and shifters you want to use and whether you want mechanical or electronic shifting. You may end up using some road and some MTB components, but be careful to check compatibility (you can't mix the two in a Shimano Di2 setup, for example).

Yes, this is more of a pain than buying a complete group, but if it gets you what you need, it's worth the effort.
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KyleM
4 posts
#20Apr 3, 2019, 3:00 PM
The new Force stuff looks pretty cool, but think they missed a couple things. I'm a little disappointed they don't have lower gearing for the couple of times we travel out of the middle of Illinois. The pricing is better and it looks cool.
I'd like 10-36 for 2x or 10-36 or 10-42 for 1x options. Not sure the Force rear will handle a 10-36, so maybe a 43/30 front with a 10-33 rear will come out. That would be alright and sticks with the 13T difference they like.
If you think about Ultegra they really only offer 50/34 front and 11-34 rear for their lowest. It's the aftermarket that is making it work to peoples liking.

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