To Skinny & Racey for me > new "gravel badged" bikes I am seeing

why does it surprise you that the racing image will take over this form of cycling? it happened in road and mountain so why would this be different. the bikes will become totally unsuitable for what 90% of riders SHOULD be riding just like it happened in the others. 

@Ayjaydee, 

I do agree with you. However, I do think that this form of cycling is partially coming out from the desire to do something different than the road racing and mtn racing scene. I also think that we've seen a large push in the mtn bike world the last few years of the not typical racing scene - bikepacking and free events. However, those still are events and races. It all comes back into equilibrium. Like them or not (and a lot of racing going on now too), but fatbikes have really allowed people to embrace their non-racer habits. I suspect that a lot of manufacturers will try to jump on and be off to the wayside as soon as they pop up. That's the great part of it - we can all get satisfaction by NOT buying something by one of those bikes sporting 28's or 32's that are set up to race.  

One of our goals in 2015 with this site is to bring more non-racing information to you. The racing stuff gets kind of old, but there is so much of it coming in at the same time, that it's hard to ignore.

It's all a great discussion point either way. 

Thanks Tinman for bringing it up and thanks to you two for participating in this forum. You all bring some good info and thoughts to the group.

Later,
Ben

frontrange

I wish I could share your optimism but I predict that within a very few years we will not be able to find affordable mass produced all rounders capable of taking fenders and racks with long enough head tubes to get the handlebars above seat height. Fat bikes are not all rounders that the average person would be most comfortable on commuting, riding bike paths, rails to trails etc. As usual, companies like Rivendell, Velo Orange, Surly etc will be the only guys making these bikes and the average rider will be averse to spending that kind of money and will instead fall for the road bike style of marketing employed so succesfully by the majors.

I think there are a lot of affordable versatile bikes available. My Black Mountain Cycles frame is built up with a mix of new and eBay-sourced used parts and is a lot of fun to ride. It also has a more realistic head tube length than the Surleys I considered. \n \n \nLooking separately at events I agree that there is a threat of social and adventure rides becoming more competitive and removing a lot of the fun for non-competetive riders like me. The defense to that trend is to pay entrance fees to organizers who don't impose fast cutoff times and declare their events rides and offer multiple mileage options.

I will add to the affordable issue. I can't speak from a road bike perspective, because that's not my thing. I haven't owned a road bike for 6 years. 
From a mountain bike perspective, the amount of options that are available, very usable, durable, and a value are 10x what were available just 10 years ago. Sure, if you focus on the $10k ones, that's all you see. But, if someone is looking to get going with $1000, what they get now is a lot more bike. Depends what you're focused on. 

I believe youre out of touch with ordinary folks. A  $1000 bike is much higher than the average joe is willing to spend to "get started". 

I started a long response to the being out of touch comment, but just stopped and deleted. There's not much more that I can say. I'd rather let the others speak to what is normal amount of money to get set up with nice, usable, functional, and durable equipment, for any recreational activity (from golf to birdwatching to photography to fishing to whatever). This is speaking for those who do that activity at a enthusiast level (not those who would do that activity 1x per month for example). "Enthusiast" being anyone who does the activity regularly - in this case cycling could be commuting, jra, whatever. They are thinking about the ride, riding, reading about it, etc. 

You can buy a car for $2000 or a house for $50,000 but it's not something that will get me in the game and they'll definitely require more money as I use them. A bike or any other equipment for any enthusiast level is going to be in a price range that's not "cheap." Value, sure. 

Surly Cross Check, one of the most popular bikes in the "mainstream" of the all around bike, comes in at $1200 something for the 2015. While I don't have numbers on the exact number of sales compared to others, it's hard to argue with the number out there riding around from over the years. It's not out of touch with what a lot of riders are doing. That's a reasonable price for what you get and what that piece of equipment is able to do. 

as an enthusiast, i most certainly agree that $1000 is a small price to pay for decent equipment. My hope; however, in this time of mass obesity in our western societies is to encourage the unwashed masses onto bicycles. It is far and away the best form of excercise for people due to no shock loads on the knees and ankles. One drawback is the dangers inherent in riding amongst automobiles, hence my interest in all-rounder style bikes that can avoid much of the busy pavement. I know from experience that these people tend to shy away from bikes in the $1000 range and I cringe at the thought they will therefore buy a walmart bike and as a result quickly lose interest in riding. It seems to me that the industry could design and build an acceptable quality all rounder in the $400 range and still make a profit and attract large numbers of new riders many of whom would go on to become enthusiasts and upgrade their equipment. I realize that hybrid bikes go a long way to satisfying this niche but they have aquired an "uncool" image in much of the community and that tends to put many folks off. The use of the marketing power of the major manufacturers that so easily sells road racing style bikes to folks that think they are cool could be used to convince new riders that "gravel" bikes are where its at.

Currently I ride a Giant Escape. I think I paid around $400 for it about 4 years ago. It has served me well and met all the requirements for an entry level bike. I can even do some gravel riding and could go wider on the tires of I wanted. The bikes are out there.

Walt, 
Cannondale Quicks serve the same function. 

This concern trolling is getting boring, but I'll play along:

Diamondback Trail Dual Sport

$479 at Sports Authority nationwide. Aluminum frame, disc brakes, looks cool. Uses the "Dual Sport" name from motorcycling.

Cut out the discs are downgrade a few things and you get:

Schwinn DSB Dual Sport

$250 at Walmart. 

Then check this out. How much flat dirt road fun could you have for $159? Walmart again.

Mongoose Hex

It's like the rally car version of a fixie.

Does anyone remember what $150 bought you at a department store 20 years ago?

Interesting.  What if I like skinnier tires because for me they work fine for most conditions?  What if I just like trying to go faster?  I guess I'm doing it all wrong.  I didn't realize I was ruining it for the people who like to do it differently.  Can't we all just ride the bikes we enjoy and have fun or do we have to demonize the ones who make choices we don't agree with?    

jimonyourback wrote:Interesting.  What if I like skinnier tires because for me they work fine for most conditions?  What if I just like trying to go faster?  I guess I'm doing it all wrong.  I didn't realize I was ruining it for the people who like to do it differently.  Can't we all just ride the bikes we enjoy and have fun or do we have to demonize the ones who make choices we don't agree with?    

I think the OP's point was that the bike companies are jumping on the "gravel bike" bandwagon, but they're not really building bikes that are different enough from CX or fitness models to earn them specific "gravel" categorization.

Obviously, ride what you like, but I would not be happy at all with 35mm tires on some of the squishy roads I get into when I hit the gravel around here. I don't know that a "Gravel Approved!" sticker should require 40-50mm tire clearance, but that is one of the defining features I'm looking at as I shop for a new "all road" ride.

@AlanEsh, 

I'm going to steal that Gravel Approved line! ha. That's awesome.

"I think the OP's point was that the bike companies are jumping on the "gravel bike" bandwagon, but they're not really building bikes that are different enough from CX or fitness models to earn them specific "gravel" categorization.

Obviously, ride what you like, but I would not be happy at all with 35mm tires on some of the squishy roads I get into when I hit the gravel around here. I don't know that a "Gravel Approved!" sticker should require 40-50mm tire clearance, but that is one of the defining features I'm looking at as I shop for a new "all road" ride."


Yea,  that was my point > thanks

I agree that bikes like the Specialized Diverge are not really bikes that most of us would choose for a long day on gravel, but they are a definite move toward more versatile road bikes compared to what we have been mostly seeing from the major brands for the past few decades. If I was out riding on a Diverge and came upon a dirt road, I would not hesitate to ride it. This is a marked difference from what happens now while riding my Roubaix. I do occasionally ride short sections of dirt, even with 23mm tires, but it is not a worry free choice.
These bikes do differ from CX bikes in geometry, especially BB drop and head tube height. They do have a good bit of similarity to some of the fitness hybrids, but with drop bars.

For my personal tastes, I see no good reason to put disc brakes on bikes with such limited tire clearance. I am currently having a custom frame built with similar clearance to a Diverge, but it will use mid reach rim brakes (Paul Racer Medium).