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Otto wrote:Hey all!Relatively new getting back into cycling (last couple of years).I own a Trek Domane AL (2021/2022) and Trek Checkpoint SL (2022) both in 56cm. I had a bike fit recently to address some shoulder pain on the Checkpoint.The fitter (a licensed physiotherapist specializing in bike fitting) moved the saddle up and back, moved cleats a bit, and has me on a 10cm shorter stem.Now, I don't get a sharp shoulder pain anymore but do have a dull ache across my upper back.Is this a case of "do more stretching and strength exercises" or is there such a thing as a bike just being the wrong geometry for someone?I note the Checkpoint is significantly more aggressive than the Domane: https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=60d5082c39532a00254f087d,640d62a8c4a612001b5131e2,(NOTE: bike insights doesn't give the whole picture on the Checkpoint - Trek specs it with a shorter reach stem and bar than the Domane so effective reach is about the same, though still "long and low" overall, I think)Disclosure: I work a desk job so I get that's probably working against me.I'm willing to put in some work on posture, stretching etc but if the best answer is to replace the bike, I'll do it. (looking at steel or Ti frames, ideally with a UDH and clearance for 700x45+mm tires - Otso Warakin perhaps?)
Hi All,Fit is a really funny topic; I did it full time for about 10 years, went to a couple of schools and generally had fun with it as it appealed to my obsessive tendencies haha. The first thing I would say is that I'm somewhat curious about why your fitter pushed your saddle back and shortened your stem which effectively moved you rearward on your bike depending upon the distance the saddle was moved as both up and back increase reach. My first intuition is that they were after the KOPS (knee over peddle spindle) factor which is just so outdated and worthless but for some reason refuses to die. Assuming the new stem is the same angle, your drop was increased by at least he amount of the saddle height change; in my experience, people tend to be very sensitive to changes in drop. Would you say the session was truly interactive? It is common for fitters to take the approach that they have been trained and know what's best. I strongly disagree with that and my way of saying it was that I can't see comfort, the rider needs to tell the fitter what the changes feel like. Also, I believe that a fit session that doesn't leave the rider pretty tired is less likely to succeed as once the rider starts to fatigue, the true issues start to really show themselves. Did you ride hard during your session? When I made a significant change, I would leave the rider alone for at least 5 minutes and tell them to ride hard, stand, go through the gears etc. and then I'd ask for their take on how it felt. Do you know what the cleat changes were? Rotational or were they moved fore/aft? Fore/aft affects the effective saddle height.. Do you know how much the saddle was raised? It kinds of sounds like the fitter checked the blocks and moved everything; sometimes that is justified but it certainly is not always needed and can just create confusion. Again, I wasn't there and in some cases that is justified but it certainly seems curious to me. Did they discuss or adjust the tilt of your saddle?My advice, and please take with a large grain since I have not seen you riding and don't know your injury history etc.. would be for you to go for ride of close to your typical long ride length. About half- way or at least when you are fully feeling the back pain, stop and move your saddle rearward about 5mm. You might want to make a sharpie mark on your saddle rail where it is now so you can always recover that. See what that tells you. If it seems comfortable, finish the ride and see if it the pain returns. Once a rider has tweaked their body, it may take a few rides to eliminate the sensitivity. Also, minor bar rotational changes yield big changes in fit as the hoods are quickly moving closer/higher and farther/lower as you rotate the bar. Again, a small sharpie dot at the faceplate will give you reference you can always come back to. So many aspects of fit are counterintuitive; take your time and you'll get there.Scott
Hey all!Relatively new getting back into cycling (last couple of years).I own a Trek Domane AL (2021/2022) and Trek Checkpoint SL (2022) both in 56cm. I had a bike fit recently to address some shoulder pain on the Checkpoint.The fitter (a licensed physiotherapist specializing in bike fitting) moved the saddle up and back, moved cleats a bit, and has me on a 10cm shorter stem.Now, I don't get a sharp shoulder pain anymore but do have a dull ache across my upper back.Is this a case of "do more stretching and strength exercises" or is there such a thing as a bike just being the wrong geometry for someone?I note the Checkpoint is significantly more aggressive than the Domane: https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=60d5082c39532a00254f087d,640d62a8c4a612001b5131e2,(NOTE: bike insights doesn't give the whole picture on the Checkpoint - Trek specs it with a shorter reach stem and bar than the Domane so effective reach is about the same, though still "long and low" overall, I think)Disclosure: I work a desk job so I get that's probably working against me.I'm willing to put in some work on posture, stretching etc but if the best answer is to replace the bike, I'll do it. (looking at steel or Ti frames, ideally with a UDH and clearance for 700x45+mm tires - Otso Warakin perhaps?)
Very interesting read thanks, especially the cleat fore/aft movement changing effective saddle height. I assume moving the cleat backwards (foot foward on the pedal) increases saddle height? If so it would explain my cramps in a race after I moved my cleats backwards, but didn't think to adjust my saddle height! Also that KOPS is outmoded…how is knee flex measured today, angle only?
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