Agreed that manufacturers ought to include tubeless tires at a much lower price point. My mountain bike was 1700 and I had to purchase tubeless tires to convert to tubeless. My gravel bike was 2000 and came with tubeless ready tires. All manufactures ought to help with by including tubeless ready tires and rims.
It is somewhat like cars. New tires(OEM) tires on cars are cheap and not that good unless you buy the expensive car. I now have 2 gravel bikes a 2016 Raleigh Tamland 1. MSRP on it was around $1700 and yes it came with non tubeless tires. I did ghetto tubeless on it had the one to seal and the other one I ran with a tube. Switched out to another brand of tire and both set up well. Fast forward I then bought the Raleigh Roker Comp MSRP around $2700. It came with tubeless tires. I just now bought a 2nd set of tires for it and found out yesterday that the Donnley PDX mud tire 700 x 33 was non tubeless. After some careful working at the LBS the rear tire set up fine Ghetto. The front not so much. the tried but a band around it and that didn't work. Finally a tube was put in and the tire was set. One side then was broken loose and the tire somewhat sealed up. It was low last night but I did the Stans shake test and it seem to seal for good finally.
If I was you i would try to set those tires up ghetto. When they wear out then you can buy tubeless tires. Good luck.
If i were to buy a bike again that did not come with tubeless tires I would try to work a swap out with the bike shop before hand, especially if it was full price. I would pay an upgrade price for the better tires but i would want something for the non-tubeless tires. It might be a deal killer if I were to just get stuck with them (again). Of course i would not let it bother me if it was a heavily discounted bike. But I have no use for non-tubeless tires.
Conan wrote:If i were to buy a bike again that did not come with tubeless tires I would try to work a swap out with the bike shop before hand, especially if it was full price. I would pay an upgrade price for the better tires but i would want something for the non-tubeless tires. It might be a deal killer if I were to just get stuck with them (again). Of course i would not let it bother me if it was a heavily discounted bike. But I have no use for non-tubeless tires.
Conan wrote:Because I want something that was designed to be tubeless. Not something that was never intended to be used that way.
I understand that exactly but why not try and set them up tubeless. I would think it's worth a try. At my end I didn't know that the Donnley PDX were non tubeless until I took them to the LBS. 24 hrs out now and they still are pumped up with no problems.
Conan wrote:I hope that combination works out for you Zman! Thanks for sharing. I didn't even know that it was possible.
I am pretty sure that they call that ghetto tubeless. It might be tubeless on non tubeless rims though not sure. I thought I posted above that the rear tire set up no problem but the front was kind of a pita. They put a band around it 1st to try and seal it. When that didn't work they put a tube in it and pump it up to 60 lbs. psi to seal it. They then broke the one side bead pull the tube out and pumped the tire back up. Pretty sure it will work as this is the 2nd time I have done it. My 1st gravel bike didn't have tubeless tires on it. I never(LBS) got the one sealed and ran a tube in it. Since they both sealed I should be good to go.
I think you should try it at your end instead of throwing the tires away.
I actually thought that some of the reason is the mess with setting up tubeless from the get go from the mfg. not sure if that is valid or not. My 2 gravel bikes
Raleigh Tamland 1 around $1500 MSRP came with tubeless rims and non tubeless tires
Raleigh Roker Comp around $2700 came tubeless both ways
Cobarchie wrote:I contacted Jamis and asked about their logic behind the choice of non tubeless tires, and the best I got out of the 15-minute conversation was they couldn't make everybody happy and parts managers consider cost above everything else when they spec a bike. The guy seemed genuinely empathetic, but the only suggestion he had for me was to try and work out a deal on upgrades with the shop.
I thought it was interesting how dismissive he was of the concept of a $1,500 bike having tubeless tires. He was insistent you had to spend way more money than that to get tubeless, and was basically treating me like I was insane for expecting a bike at that price point to have tubeless rubber.
I called the shop and had a few uncomfortable conversations with the owner who was very agitated about the situation, but he offered to take back the wheels and tires and give me a credit as long as I purchased upgrades through him. We didn't work out a deal on upgrades, but he took the wheels and tires and handed me a $100 bill.
It was a frustrating process for both of us, and I'm glad it's behind me. I don't want to go back to that shop for any reason, and I'm sure he doesn't want to see me. The unfortunate thing is it's not his fault at all. Manufacturers spec bikes, not shops, but consumers only have the shop to deal with after a sale. I understand a shop can't stay in business for long if they're constantly buying back parts off of a bike, so his frustration is warranted, but as a consumer, I don't want to pay for things on a bike that will be scrapped and upgraded immediately.
All this unfortunate business could have been avoided if I had known from the beginning the tires weren't tubeless, so note to the bicycle industry... make it super obvious when you don't spec tubeless tires. Better yet, nobody wants to run tubes anymore. Just put tubeless tires on your bikes.
I don't know who you ride with but a lot of people still run tubes without issues. I feel, just like saddles, tires are a personal preference to the consumer. Maybe I get a tire on a new bike I like, but more likely I already have preferences and swap them out.
Tubeless or not, tires are just one place manufacturers skimp to meet a price point. Bottom brackets, brake rotors, cassettes, shift cables, the list goes on. You just can’t “expect” anything, at any price point. Look at all the bikes with “Ultegra” in their name, but they don’t have a full Ultegra group. That is kind of misleading. Low end tires? That’s just low end spec.
OP: You did not get "screwed." You simply didn't do your due diligence before buying the bike. No one concealed anything from you.
Next time, inspect the bike more thoroughly, and ask for any desired parts swaps before buying the bike.
To answer your initial question: no, I am not surprised that a $1500 bike came with tubeless rims and non-tubeless compatible tires. It's how my first gravel bike was spec'd. I imagine that, at that price point, many or most buyers aren't interested in tubeless. (Don't universalize your own preferences.)
@Cobarchie : There's no way in hell I'm reading a post that long. In the time it took you to write it, you could've earned enough money to buy a set of tubeless tires.
Remember that a good bike will last a looong time and carry you over many miles - my oldest is 17yrs/40k+ miles. So, replacing parts, because they are worn or you want to upgrade, is pretty common. Get your tubeless tires and enjoy the ride.
I would not expect a $1500 gravel or road bike to come with tubeless tires. They are more expensive, and tires are a common place to cut spec if you want to reach a particular price point. Jumping up to a more expensive model includes more upgrades than just tubeless tires. Usually you will get a step up in the group set, a better crank, maybe a better seat, etc...I also think at that price, you are attracting a lot of first time buyers/riders who really just want a solid, reliable bike at a reasonable price.
Now I would expect tubeless rims at that price, and it is a lot less expensive to upgrade to tubeless tires vs upgrading to a tubeless wheelset. Of the 3 bikes I've purchased over the last 8 years or so, all of them have had tubeless rims, but only one bike came with tubeless tires. That bike was $2800.00 for comparison.
1. Bike manufactures and shops don't have much margin on lower end bikes, so every dollar saved on cost matters.
2. Although some (including myself) do ride our lower end bikes on gravel a lot, I would venture to say that most of them spend their life on bike paths and such, or frankly in the garage 360 days a year. That demographic doesn't care about tubeless, and tubes are frankly better for those scenarios.
3. To get setup tubeless correctly after sale, the LBS probably needs to start with tubes when they they initially setup the bike, then convert to tubeless after sale so the sealant is fresh. If the bike were to sit there for 9-12 months before sale, do you want old, dry sealant? The point is it takes the LBS more time and material cost to do it right.
4. Why even squabble over the OE tires to begin with? Sure, it's nice to get some that are not throwaways, but you probably want good tires that fit your needs for width, tread, puncture resistance, etc. Rims I probably agree with you though; there is no reason to be selling proper gravel bikes without tubeless ready rims, even if most can be made such at minimal cost.
