Any Lively steel frames out there?

I've got a nearly new Lynskey GR270 ti gravel bike - the standard frame, not the PRO.  It's a great bike for a great deal - fast, efficient, does most everything really well.  But, it's a stiff frame, even for me at 190 lbs.  The other day, I did a roadie ride with the local group on my 20 yr old Rivendell/Waterford 753 tubed road bike, and this bike was so much more lively and enjoyable to ride with Conti 4k 28's compared with my Lynskey rolling on a set of 32c Conti 5k's. 

Which has me thinking:  I would really like to have a steel gravel bike with up to 45c clearance and a much softer / whip-ier frame that feels like an old style 70's - 90's high end Italian/US road bike.  Because, when I think about it, 99% of the time I'm gravel riding, I'm bumping along at 180-250 watts for a hundred miles with occasional forays up to a few hundred watts.  I don't need stiffness for  that nor for sprinting at 1000 watts when I'm on my gravel bike.

I haven't ridden any of the newer steel road bikes, but I suspect that most are built overly stiff, because that's kind of the "thing" to do nowadays, and I'm not interested in a high price custom steel frame because I really don't care about the name on the bike nor do I care about all the fussy artsy details.  And, I don't want to shell out a big pile of money and end up with a steel frame that's just as stiff and "dead" feeling as the Lynskey.

Any ideas on a company/brand that makes an old-style-riding steel frame with all the modern specs of 12mm through axles and generous tire clearance?

As a general rule of thumb, look for bikes with a frame weight (not including the fork) of under 4 pounds.  That doesn't guarantee a lively ride but it is a good place to start.  I've been pretty pleased with the ride feel of my Fat Chance Chris Cross.  With 650bx50 rubber, it's quick, comfortable and capable.

Also, consider a custom Gunnar Hyper-X.  If you want it to ride like your Waterford, they could do it if anyone could!

I think you pretty much just described a Raleigh Tamland exactly...

Nothing production is going to get as flexy as a 70s bike because those frames don't pass the factories' destructive tests. You have to go custom if you want classic tubing diameters.

Fairlight Secan, Stelbel Nina, Niner RLT 9 Steel... anything else?

Kona Rove Ltd. I suspect they are gone for 2020 so there might be some deals out there.  Very lively. 

I really think you'd have to go custom for something like that; built for your weight but still with some degree of liveliness/flex you'd want. I'm imagining (by the looks of it) something like the recent narrow-tubed rando (PBP) red frame/bike over on TheRadavist with the polymer-spoke wheels, but with big tyre clearance. Kind of similar to what Jeff Lyon would do. 

Agree on custom.  Most modern steel bikes from the big names are built for the average American who apparently weighs 250 pounds.  Those of us considerably less than that end up suffering through an inferior ride quality.

Thanks, I saw that Rove Ltd and it looks like a nice frame.  At $1499, it's pushing custom pricing, though, right?  Plus, if I went steel, I'd really like a steel fork, too, and the Ltd head tube taper makes that somewhat of an issue.  Dropping down to the Rove ST, which has a steel fork, and that's a "too inexpensive" frameset for me to think that it'll ride all that great.

All City has the Cosmic Stallion, which looks nice, but again, a carbon fork with tapered head tube.  Their Mr Pink Classic frame looks nice and has a steel fork, but 130mm rear spacing - and I've got 3 sets of 142mm space wheels.

The Gunnar, by Waterford looks good, and the website shows a unicrown through axle fork, but frame and fork and minimal paint upgrade is pushing 2k.  I might have to find one to demo...

I did email Lynskey about making a custom livelier frame, but I don't know what their custom pricing is.  Meanwhile, I'll keep looking.

Endpoint Hunter/Gatherer is only single-oversized, steel fork, TAs front and rear. The only catch is that it's got low trail geometry. Their Coffee Grinder has more of a road geometry but the tubing is double-oversized. They're working on a flexier bike but it probably won't take 45s.

Black Mountain Cycles frames are probably on the flexier end of the spectrum but again are Asian production bikes which limits the tubing.

New Albion Drake is probably similar. Soma Fog Cutter probably has the same spec but slightly less tire clearance.

nellborg wrote:Thanks, I saw that Rove Ltd and it looks like a nice frame.  At $1499, it's pushing custom pricing, though, right?  Plus, if I went steel, I'd really like a steel fork, too, and the Ltd head tube taper makes that somewhat of an issue.  Dropping down to the Rove ST, which has a steel fork, and that's a "too inexpensive" frameset for me to think that it'll ride all that great.

the RoveLtd is $1500 CAD. Given that they will likely go on sale I would expect about $950 USD. 

I’m not in love with steel forks, but the Rove Ltd is in the 4lbs frame weight range.  4.5 with the fork. 

https://ridinggravel.forumchitchat.com/post/kona-rove-ltd-build-9662526#post_row_1303368701

Here are my thoughts on the Rove Ltd. 

Fairlight Secan looks promising.  Niner has a PF BB, and I'd like threaded.  Stelbel looks nice, but probably up in the custom price area.

I think this is along your lines, where I was on a similar quest. And although the format (Gates) is not conducive to your vision, the frame itself is very whippy and has that old timey feel to it. Here's a quick build list:

Soma Wolverine v3 - Rear 12mm TA
Whisky #7 - 9mm TA (not QR), CK head
Whisky #9 12F Drop w #7 Stem*
i9 Trail S 650b
Donnelly Xplor 650x50
Sram S900 - Spyre C
Sram Force Crank(updated, not pic), RF BB

*very impressed with this setup, so much so to say it directly adds to whippiness and I've ridden everything from Salsa, Easton, Ritchey...

I've since toned this ride down from gravel to a full fendered (very agile) cruiser but it still brings me smiles for miles.

As background I ride (in gravel formats) :
Custom Niner BSB9 RDO 1x11 build
Custom Blaze Ti Gravel 1x11 build

    :

Thanks for the link.EB

Thanks, I'll take a look at that Soma.EB

Gunnar - but in my own experience on their CX bike, the rear triangle is overbuilt for stiffness and might not be what you're looking for as a road or dirt road bike. 

I wouldn't dismiss custom as just a name and artsy details. It's really all about dialing in the fit and ride quality. There are plenty of builders out there that are not located in Portland that will build the perfect bike you want without the name, paint, or cost. 

I've got a new Gunnar Hyper-X, and it is indeed pretty stiff. I'm guessing that, if you went custom (an extra $350) they might be able to sub-in a lighter tubeset. But, as-is, mine feels as stiff as anything I've ridden.

Also, while you can probably squeeze some 45mm tires in it, the rear triangle's safe limith is probably about 42-43mm.

Thanks for input, Masshoff and Koyote.  That's what I suspected about the Gunnar, i.e. beautifully made but with stiffness at the BB made to compete with carbon.

When I got my GR270 frame in the mail in March, I remember trying to squeeze the lower seat stays together to get a sense of how flexible the posterior triangle was, and not seeing any movement, I thought to myself, "wow.  This is a tank."  Thank the Lord for 42c tubeless tires run at 30 psi!

I do think that a custom builder would be able to deliver a lively, springy frame, but I went that way once with a Seven ti frame about 15 yrs ago and ended up with the same overly stiff frame that was not a pleasure to ride.  So, I'm skeptical of going that way again because I think many builders will listen to what I want but then build what they think I should like.  An off the shelf option with lots of good reviews would be so much easier...

I just found this site.  Maybe I'll slowly go through the list.  I'm also still waiting to hear back from Lynskey about making a more flexible frame, because I like everything else about the bike.

https://theframebuilders.com/list.php